starting motor after rebuild, 1fzfe (1 Viewer)

[cruiserman]

My rebuilt 1fzfe is installed, and even with the plugs removed, the starter is not able to turn the motor. The battery is probably not quite 100% after 3 months of sitting in the garage, but my charger shows it to be OK. I'm going to trickle charge it for a while, but I'm wondering if there is a problem with the starter itself.

I am able to turn the motor by hand with a breaker bar on the crank bolt. I left the coil wire un-installed, and I pulled the EFI fuse.

Any ideas?

 

[cruiserdan]

Eric,

If you are able to bar the motor then it is not a mechanical issue(thank goodness). Are you getting any "clicking" or other indications that the starter is trying to turn over? The battery could certainly be in a state of discharge after sitting Idle for that time period. Get the C10 and jump it.

D-

 

[cruiserman]

I can hear the starter make an attempt to turn the motor, and then it makes a sound like when trying to start the motor when it's already running. I tried swapping batteries from the chevy and isuzu, but the post locations are different. I'll try jumping it.

 

[cruiserman]

I jumped the batteries, and got the same noise from the starter. It must be the contacts. Dan, I'll give you a call tomorrow. I may see if my local worthless excuse for a dealer has them in stock.

 

[landandsea]

Eric,

How about the ol' "jumping the solenoid terminals with a screwdriver" method?

If it spins, then there is a problem in the ignition circuit. If it does the same thing as it does when you use the key, then it's back to square one.

Good luck,
Ed

BTW...had the same thing happen to me after putting a new motor in a sailboat. To make a very long story short, I found that when bolting up the transmission, I used a bolt that was too long and the end of it was tightened up against the flywheel. Needless to say, that wasn't the first place I looked for the problem.

 

[cruiserman]

I've not tried that before. Details, por favor?

 

[landandsea]

In general, there are two terminals on the starter solenoid. The big one that the positive battery cable connects to and a smaller terminal with a smaller guage wire connected to it.

When you turn the key, 12V is brought to the small terminal to energize the coil which draws the plunger into the contacts.

By placing a screwdriver across the big and small terminals, you put 12V directly to the coil, which should spin the starter.

But remember, when you do this, you are by-passing all of the safety features, such as having to have the trans in Park or Neutral to start. I'm not sure if a vehicle with an auto trans would move if the starter was engaged in Drive or reverse, but be careful anyway.

Ed

 

[IdahoDoug]

Hmmm, maybe now I should fess up and tell you the wire I traced for you actually goes to the starter. Heh. Just kidding.

I think that if you can accomplish the ol' direct connection of the starter, you'll know something. Just not sure you can reach all that stuff to connect things, frankly. In the old days, it was easy to get to the solenoid because it was sitting atop an inner fender. If you end up under the car trying to cross those terminals, just remember that whatever you're gonna do it with is going to get real hot real fast. Might try disconnecting the battery, fashioning a jumper (screwdriver held in place with vice grips, etc) and then holding the battery cable against the battery post for a few seconds. That way, you're neither under the truck, nor holding something above you that might get real hot before you drop it onto your chest.....

And whatever you do, don't try holding the starter in place with your hands. A friend knew a guy who did that to check connections while he instructed his wife to bump the key. Broke both arms...

Doug

 

[landandsea]

While we're telling starter stories... way back when, I had a '65 GTO. Put headers on it. Tightening the header bolts was an excrutiatingly slow process. A few days later, the starter went out. Unbolted the starter, but couldn't get it past the header. Tried for hours to wiggle it past the header, totally determined to not go through the whole unbolting-bolting of the header process again. Finally needed to take a break. Got out from under the car, started walking to the house and heard a clunk. Looked under the car and the starter was lying on the driveway. Fell out by itself.

Ed

 

[cruiserman]

It's not the neutral start switch. I'm not keen on pulling the starter just yet.

It shouldn't matter that I have the coil completely disconnected, correct? They are separate circuits.

I guess I'll pull the stupid thing.

 

[landandsea]

The procedure that I suggested is done with the starter still installed. The idea is to eliminate all other circuits, wiring, components, as possible problems.

If the engine cranks when you jump the terminals, you will know that the starter is OK.

If you try it, be prepared for a rather large spark. Not a big deal, but it makes me jump every time, even though I know it will happen.

Ed

 

[cruiserman]

I pulled it and did the standard tests. The plunger works as advertised. I declined to do the no load, performance test as I don't have an ammeter that goes up to 100A.

I think I'll take it down to NAPA tomorrow and have them do the performance test.

Assuming the starter is OK, what else could be the problem? The neutral start switch appears to be OK. I can turn the motor by hand. Battery appears to be OK.

 

[cruiserman]

I hate to even ask this, but how can i verify the flex plate is installed in the correct orientation?

 

[Beowulf]

Eric,

>> ... and then it makes a sound like when trying to start the motor <<
>> when it's already running. <<

A high pitched whine as though the stater is free-wheeling... i.e. turning real fast without any load?

Have you verified the teeth on the starter gear is meshing with the flex-plate (? fly wheel ? )

-B-

 

[cruiserman]

Nope and therein lies the rub, yon Cassius. Kind of hard to do that, if not impossible.

 

[Beowulf]

Is the starter still off? If it is, you can feel/measure where the teeth are on the flex plate, and then measure the starter to see if the teeth will engage... basically telling you whether the flex plate is positioned correctly.

Was your answer "Nope" to the sound the starter is making?
-B-

 

[cruiserman]

Not a bad idea. I don't want to know the answer.

 

[Beowulf]

Don't kill the messenger...
-B-

 

[cruiserman]

[quote author=Beowulf link=board=2;threadid=7050;start=msg58317#msg58317 date=1067834456]

A high pitched whine as though the stater is free-wheeling... i.e. turning real fast without any load?[/quote]

No, more like it's engaged and can't get it to turn.

 

[Beowulf]

There was a post somewhere (80sCool ?) that described a problem and the outcome was the flex plate had been installed backwards. See if you can find that post in the archives (don't think it was here) and see what the symptoms were. As I recall, it was JJJ or Juice or someone that did a V8 swap and used the Toyota tranny.

Seems like it made noise when in backwards but didn't keep it from starting...

(Later....)
Eric,
It was a thread started by Seth Haines. He did a V8 swap with the Marks kit and it came with a new flex plate. Somehow it was installed wrong and made noise but the engine would start OK.

Does the engine turn smoothly with the breaker bar? That would seem to eliminate the flex plate binding on something.

-B-