Starting Issues Again...

[Jomama]

Intermittent starting probs raised their head again this weekend

Did the contacts back in November.
Replaced the Battery just after newyears.
Haven't had a prob until last week.

Had two instances last week were I turned the key, and there was a delay, a sec or two, just enough that I would almost be letting go of the key, and then it would turn over......

Then Sat, park at a store, come out. No Start'um...

All typical lights on dash light up, just no turn over. Checked trany shifter to make sure its not the Park Kill switch.. Noticable buzz or hum coming from under hood when key is held to start position. Last winter when this first happened before I replaced the contacts, I never noticed a hum such as this. Much more obvious just sitting in the front seat than any noises I heard last fall.
5 min later with a couple dozen turns of the key and it starts.

Did it to me yesterday, same thing, started after a few turns tho.
Started fine this morning.

Need some help directing my next course of action....

So.... are there instances when the starter is shot regardless of replacing the contacts???

Is there another link in the "chain" of starting the vehicle? Is there a ignition switch somewhere that can go bad??

Thank you in advance to any suggestions.

Cheers All!


EDIT: I did "search" as well this morning, but I didn't find any threads related to problems after you've done the contacts and a new battery.

 

[ppc]

At the time you replaced the contacts did you also replace the plunger? If not then I would do that and also make sure the new contacts are positioned properly.

 

[mabrodis]

My guess would also be that the contacts have isseus. When you did the contacts did you clean out that whole area where they are really good? Mine had lots of soot in there, black goo, etc. I sprayed a bunch of brake cleaner in there, tons of nasty stuff came out. When my contacts were dieing they would do the 'delay' thing, I don't recall a loud noise, but I could hold the key to start and after 3-4 seconds it would finally kick over.

You probably need to figure out what is making the noise. My guess is it's the actual contacts making the noise...but probably should figure that out first.

 

[Jomama]

Yes, I did the plunger along with the contacts.

Hmm, did I pressure wash the thing clean? NO. But did I thoroughly clean it with brakecleaner on a rag? yes. Anything that would of appeared to "muck" it up I think I would of cleaned out. Thinking back too it, I don't remember it being particularly messy inside.

Note: I've gone home for lunch since my first post. First three turns of the key nothing. Lights up, Volt meter drops when key is turned too start.
4th time turned over.

What about the smaller wire with plastic clip that attaches to the starter (only connection other than the large bat wire). Could that thing be cracked, severed, heatdamaged enough over the years to be causing a intermittent prob??

I could replace the contacts again, but if the starter is just going to go bad regardless I'd like to work for a more perm solution now so I don't have a truck that won't start hanging over my head (its my only vehicle). :\

 

[Jomama]

[quote author=mabrodis link=board=2;threadid=15735;start=msg149769#msg149769 date=1083617255]
You probably need to figure out what is making the noise. My guess is it's the actual contacts making the noise...but probably should figure that out first.
[/quote]

W/hood open I thought it sounded like it was coming from the starter area. Need a second body to be sure. Solid yet faint hum sound, like you can hear the load going to it, and its not doing anything.

Not at all the click, click, click I used to associate with all the old FJ40 starters I had...

 

[landtank]

I'd try jumping the battery. We've seem a rash of alternator brush issues lately and maybe the battery isn't getting charged properly and it's just showing up as a starter problem.

 

[Jomama]

Would that indicate a bad alt??
I can put it on a charger tonight to see if that affects the frequency of this happening. Like I said, this has literally come on "suddenly" since saturday.

Stopped at the store on my way back from lunch and shut off the truck.
Took me 4-6 min and a couple dozen key turns.
Sound is definitly a hard "Click" on the starter, that you can also hear it disengage more quietly when you let off the key. Not really a hum as I said before.


After I got to work I shut it off and re-started it a few times.

I notice a ever so slight delay between: key turned to start.... and hearing the starter spin/turnover/start... Mabey a half a second or a bit longer ???

Thanks for the input.

 

[landtank]

my thinking is that if you jump the truck and all is normal then the new battery isn't getting charged. That would indicate a alternator problem to me. A loose belt or possibly brushes. Just because the lights come on doesn't mean you got the balls to turn the engine over.

 

[Jomama]

Rogerthat, I'll see what a charge does overnight, and next time I cant get it to start I will try a jump.

Do I have to pull the alt to have it tested??

Can I tell anything about the status of the alt with a volt-meter??
(electrical is by far my weakest point in vehicle maintenance)


I've never messed with the belts. 1-PO, dealer serviced, I'll give them a look too. They've not squeaked or anything to this point that would of made me raise an eye...


And if it hasn't been said already today. This board and all its participants rock!!!
Thanks!

J.

 

[landtank]

You can check the alternator with a volt meter. Start the truck :-\, and then turn on the lights and the radio, this is to be sure the alternator should be charging, and then you should read about 13.5 - 14 vdc. If you don't have a meter you could just buy the brushes, about 15.00, and replace them. Real easy!

 

[Jomama]

EDIT: Looked at the alt.
Just to be sure: test the large alt end of the large lead that runs to the battery terminal???? not the one of the two smaller wires that run from the plastic clip on the back of the alt.



Ahh... Rebuild alt myself, that sounds like a plan, even preventatively. Is this in the FSM? Looks to be a sort of a PITA to get out, but if its a fix.. I'm happy..

Thanks LT

 

[landtank]

The volt reading is taken accross the battery terminals + & -. A few guys recently did the brush kit on their trucks. Once the alternator is out you remove a rear cover and then 2 screws hold in the brush assembly.

 

[Beowulf]

Jomama,
In order of probability....
1. starter contacts (or plunger, or wiring as you mentioned.)
2. battery (alt not charging as Rick mentioned.)
3. ignition switch. These can go bad; especially if you carry a lot of keys and other heavy stuff on the key chain.

-B-

 

[Jomama]

Ok. Did the volt meter readings.

Alt was 13.27 and steady
Bat was 12.17 (engine off obviously)

I charged it with a trickle charger on the 6amp quick charge.. approx 4 hrs and it appeared to take a charge :-\ Started up on a few attempts afterward.

Changing alt brushes sounds like the next step. 140K and I assume its original...
Its Toyota/land cruiser but its gotta give out eventually right

That wireing is tricky to get a look at. I have to do my front axle service at the end of the month so I can check them out then..

Mabey get a ignition switch while I'm at it?? I take it, its column mounted right behind the key slot somewhere?

Cdan do you have a part # on the ignition switch.

 

[Jomama]

So now this has started lag free for two days

I will be changing the brushes in the Alt at the end of the month, and see if I have a re-occurance.

Just turned 140K

How many others have had alt probs once they hit the higher milage marks??
I will take some digi-pics if this hasn't been covered and contribute a faq if that is needed?


What I don't understand is that the volt meter indicated it was being charged?? But is the charging of your car-bat just a matter of volts?? or is there a amp componet as well that could be lacking from the Alt?
Or would just a "worn out" alt thats not completely broke explain why with a new battery I didn't have a re-occurance of the starting issue for the 4-5 months it took to wear the new-battery out ???

 

[landtank]

When the brushes wear down they can bounce a little giving erratic results. Not the easiest thing to see with a digital Multimeter. You're like the 3rd person in as many weeks with a brush problem. I've always just put in brush kits in my Toyotas. It's always worked for me and I do it sometime after 100k.

I'd get on this right away, it's only about a 1 hour job. 2 bolts, 2 wires then some screws to remove the rear cover and 2 more for the brush assembly.

 

[Jomama]

Starting prob back with wet weather.

Havent had a starting problem all summer, since my last posts dated below.

Now the last three days we've had the first real constant rain in months and "bam" dead truck in the parking lot yesterday afternoon?
Took about 10-20 turns on the dead key (with dash lights & single click of ignition when turned) then it just fired up.


Seems that this problem of not starting always shows up when its very wet outside.
Anyone have experience with something consistently getting moist and messing with starting.

Only thing left for me to replace is ignition switch.

Can I get a part # if you see this Cdan?

Any thoughts?

 

[semlin]

what did you replace? battery, brushes, harness?

one possibility is that nowyou are working the wipers and defrost fan in the rain you have pushed the alternator or battery over the edge. Another possibility is a bad wiring harness.

 

[Jomama]

Rebuilt starter and alt.

Replaced battery last January, and it bench tested fine in May the last time I had this occur.


The WHOLE wiring harness? is what your talking about???


Just seems to coincidental with wet weather for it to be just random.

 

[semlin]

sorry the comment is generic. I meant whatever leads you have from battery and ground to starter. i am just guessing here.