spun bearing

[lynchmob]

The Th is probably for Taiho. They make OEM bearings for toyota and others these days.

From your recent post it seems that size is the issue not quality.

 

[lynchmob]

One thing to consider in all this.

If it developed a rod knock when it all started to fail it would be worth having the rods checked out and resized if needed. If they are out of round on the big end even a little you will be taking it apart again.

 

[kore]

i meant to say thrust bearing, but for some reason it came out thrust washer, one of those loose connection in my brain.
i guess this is a lesson for everyone: keep your old bearings and measure and make sure the new ones are the right ones, parts guys often dont know what theyre looking at, they are just look at numbers which are sometimes wrong.
looks like maybe they were for a bigger size journal, and they got smushed in there hence the deformation pinching off flow of oil and causing massive friction=expansion. at least you stopped and didnt throw a rod through your block!

 

[lynchmob]

i guess this is a lesson for everyone: keep your old bearings and measure and make sure the new ones are the right ones

2nd this.

Use plastigage.

Im sorry for your situation, but if you had done that step you would have known there was an issue in the beginning (if the issue actually is bearing size).

When you took it apart did you notice if the oil holes in the bearings were lined up with the holes in the rods?

The photo of your bearings looks like the hole was not lined up

 

[amaurer]

HOARSE S**T!!!!!

armurer man thas what i couldn't figure out they fit but too well there too small and the guy behind the counter insisted they were correct thanks so much man for the pics i wasnt sure cuz the bearings are manged and worn but now i sure they were the wrong ones/size
what are the numbers on the smaller bearing? they look to be the same as mine

Picture attached. Mine came in under the "NDC" label, but who knows who really made em.

just found it bearing package is labled B,2B,3B,11B,13B WTF that some BS right there

Yeah, thats the problem. I couldn't find anything in the EPC that showed interchange between B/2B and 3B for rod bearings (but I didn't check every year, but without a doubt this is true for the majority of 3B years). SOR is clearly not the only place with the belief that everything interchanges - it may even be flowing down from somewhere else - but its very wrong.

i meant to say thrust bearing, but for some reason it came out thrust washer, one of those loose connection in my brain.
i guess this is a lesson for everyone: keep your old bearings and measure and make sure the new ones are the right ones, parts guys often dont know what theyre looking at, they are just look at numbers which are sometimes wrong.
looks like maybe they were for a bigger size journal, and they got smushed in there hence the deformation pinching off flow of oil and causing massive friction=expansion. at least you stopped and didnt throw a rod through your block!

They were for a smaller size journal - mine dropped right into the bearing caps without any pressing. They probably gripped the crank just a little bit too tight, and without a strong press fit into the cap they could rock a little bit and drag. Each time they got a little worse...

This mistake is so easy to make, you can't imagine, especially if this was your first time doing this kinda job (like it was for me). I literally stood in my garage loading these things into the caps and thinking "hmm, those went in easy!" and wondering to myself "the label says 3B, surely it couldn't be wrong???" In fact, I can even remember myself wondering what would happen if I used them and they were the wrong ones... not often you get to see whats on the path you didn't take.

As for the plastigage, I didn't plan on using any but at the last minute had a friend drive over from across town and pick some up for me. Nothing but sympathy for ya man, I feel like I was in exactly the same situation.

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

the bearings were too small and spun causing the deformation but same idea
The oil holes all lined up which threw me
and what would cause the rod to go out of round? and is there any way to out of round with out removing the piston and rod as the head is still on, could i wrap the plasti guage around the crank or...? the rods were all good and in spec before the disaster and the bearings were smaller than normal

amaurer it was as if it was too easy cuz with the mains it took some effort to get them in, man am i kicking my self in the arse now
oh well good lesson leared the hard way i just hope i dont have to pull this thing apart again to just the block that took mad effort and too many bloody knuckles

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

thanks again all
your replies are realy helpful

 

[lynchmob]

the bearings were too small and spun causing the deformation but same idea
The oil holes all lined up which threw me
and what would cause the rod to go out of round? and is there any way to out of round with out removing the piston and rod as the head is still on, could i wrap the plasti guage around the crank or...?

The big end can go out of round if there is a significant rod knock. The cap end gets extended.

I suppose the bearing material spinning in there could get it out of round as well.

The only real way to check is on the bench at a machine shop. They can be resized on some rods by removing a small amount of material from the mating faces of the rod and cap - then hey are asembled and honed out to correct size.

 

[amaurer]

the bearings were too small and spun causing the deformation but same idea
The oil holes all lined up which threw me
and what would cause the rod to go out of round? and is there any way to out of round with out removing the piston and rod as the head is still on, could i wrap the plasti guage around the crank or...?

The banging from a bad knock, or the heat buildup from the dragging bearing could cause the out-of-roundness.

Don't wrap the plastigage around the crank, the reading will be worthless.

One the one hand, it looks like you managed to catch things early and spared yourself more severe damage - I suspect rods have survived worse. On the other hand, you've already rebuilt the motor once. Personally, I'd pull it and check.

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

the knock wasnt bad just became noticeable and i shut her down also all the end caps came off preally easy just the one with the stuck bearing was a little difficult cause of the bearing jam but once passed all was good i suspect it was the bearings but i will try ang get the stubby michrometer (its a 4inch) on the rods I think i got enough room to work with but my guess is there fine but sure as s***e want some piece of mind oh well here we go again

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

The big end can go out of round if there is a significant rod knock. The cap end gets extended.

The nock wasnt bad just started to hear it as it shut down from low oil and no knock at idle

The only real way to check is on the bench at a machine shop. They can be resized on some rods by removing a small amount of material from the mating faces of the rod and cap - then hey are asembled and honed out to correct size.

man you can check/measure metal youself learn to read (no insult intended) a michrometer or vernier also dial indicators veary helpful. (SOME) machine shops rip you off from my experince ive worked in the industry (there lazy or just incompetant) and its happend to me twice now mind you both these place have gone under now or changed names. I learned how to use precision instruments during my apprentice ship for tool and die and also when i went to school for robotics and automation
LOL mind you i need to lern writin better
this quote functions cool just found it
damn this fourm is great

 

[lynchmob]

man you can check/measure metal youself learn to read (no insult intended) a michrometer or vernier also dial indicators veary helpful. (SOME) machine shops rip you off from my experince ive worked in the industry (there lazy or just incompetant) and its happend to me twice now mind you both these place have gone under now or changed names. I learned how to use precision instruments during my apprentice ship for tool and die and also when i went to school for robotics and automation
LOL mind you i need to lern writin better
this quote functions cool just found it
damn this fourm is great

No offense taken. Sure I can use and read precision instruments, but there are just some things that I trust more to someone who does it all day every day.

Find a machine shop that is run by a guy that is just a total geek about engines.

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

No offense taken. Sure I can use and read precision instruments, but there are just some things that I trust more to someone who does it all day every day.

Find a machine shop that is run by a guy that is just a total geek about engines.

easier said than done around brampton but i found a good guy out in toronto but he sucks when it comes to toyota parts the macining wise he is great but it comes with a price so i try to avoid him

 

[kore]

you might want to think about pulling the engine out and completely dissasembling it. if there were metal shavings/chips in the pan they could have been sucked through the engine you have to be sure you get it all out, or you could have disaster #2 on your hands.

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

Got the rod bearings today and guess what they were the wrong ones again atleast the box said b & 2b
the right ones should be here tommorow i swear the mix up lies in the catalouge of parts or how they number them.
As for metal in the oil system I doubt it, oil is being pushed out and only being sucked up throught the strainer , there was next to no metal in the pan and the filter only had a little but that was from cutting it open with the hack saw. Also I would have seen damage on the cam bearings and they look new, the strainer was also clean and when I did my rebuild I found way more metal in the pan and stuck in the screen of the strainer things look damn good considering what happened.
anyone tried a can opener to open the oil filter?
didnt get a chance to pull the mains today I need a new breaker bar mine broke at the head broke before the bolt even budged "mastercrap quality"

thanks all for the replys
jon

 

[crushers]

holy crap, what a read...
that sucks Jon.

best of luck the second time around...

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

well pulled the head the rods were out of round , there at the machine shop now the guy said $150 to put them back into spec is that a reasonable price? as for the crank it was fine just needs to be polished anyone done this before I was told to use 400-600 grit strip sand paper by the shop and to only do it a little?
thanks guys

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

also the pre cups are loose tiny movement, but it is -25 out could that be why?
when I installed the precups I used dry ice to chill the pre cups and they slid right in so they must shrink so is the cold the reason there loose right now?

 

[amaurer]

also the pre cups are loose tiny movement, but it is -25 out could that be why?
when I installed the precups I used dry ice to chill the pre cups and they slid right in so they must shrink so is the cold the reason there loose right now?

Were they new when you did you rebuild?

My thoughts on this are complicated:

On the one hand, precups moving seems bad, and I'd replace them.

On the other, I'm not sure anyone has had their head off in that kind of weather, so it could be somewhat normal - after all, the block is going to hold them in place, so long as they're whole they're not going anywhere.

I dunno. When in doubt, replace.

 

[Big Blue 84BJ60]

they were brand new when the were installed im not worried cuz they still look like new no cracks dont really pull out just jiggle the tinyest bit and its so damn cold out it feels like my testies never dropped

also the lock tight is gone disapeered no longer there i did it right the surfaces were so clean you could eat off of them I cleaned them and the head with break cleaner, ideas on what happened? I figure heat expansion and contraction