Spinning cative nut in frame rail???? (2 Viewers)

[HardyDanger]

QUESTION: I went to pull of my tow hitch, it needs a coat of paint. However, one of the captive nuts in the frame rail spun off when I was removing it, so now the bolt is just dingling there with the nut free spinning in the frame rail...I'm imagining the only way to full remove is sawzall that bolt off. Of course it was the last bolt. It is the right inside bolt.

I just snugged up the other 3 bolts and walked away from it.

Here's the questions:
With only three bolts holding this to the frame, is this now compromised for towing and also for use as a recover point (I have a recovery hitch shackle).

Rear recovery points would be the rear points with a recovery rated point installed? (like a trail tailor, I need a pair of those for the front too)

Use of factory tow loops not advised in recovery situations, correct?

Towing might be an issue...but don't have to tow my boat for six months. guessing I'd have to get something welded back to the frame rail to fix the receiver issue, but that seems like a silly endeavor?
and or replace it with something like this:

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Curt/13091.html

or pony up for a bumper with an integrated receiver....prob not happening anytime soon...

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, A lot of hitches are welded on by aftermarket installers.I’ve had several welded on over the years. Don’t tow like it is now, don’t pull out of the mud like that either. Your cruiser weighs a lot . Mike

 

[Malleus]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: You should never tow using a hook mounted to a trailer hitch, mounted to the frame. You should absolutely never snatch the truck, or use it to snatch another vehicle, using hooks mounted to the underside of the frame rails, including the OEM ones that were mounted there. Those hooks are tie downs, not tow hooks. The fact that many people do it doesn't make it right. The frame and drivetrain on an 80 series was never intended to be used as a wrecker. There is a reason you have never seen anyone use a winch mounted under the frame; it's mounted inline with the frame because that's where the frame is strongest: inline with the line of action of the load.

The under frame mounted trailer hitch (I have three sitting in my storage unit) was a port installed dealer accessory, not designed by Toyota specifically for the 80 series. Under frame mounted hitch receivers place the towed load on the frame mounting holes in such a way that the frame section can easily be torn. It also places the fasteners in shear, where they are weakest. The only reason they don't break on first use is their size, quantity and the clamping force they exert on the frame section. This is still not the ideal arrangement.

The 80 series, like the 60s and 40s before them, have mounting holes in the vertical surface of the rearmost frame crossmember. This is where a trailer hitch should be mounted and the pattern is a standard hitch mounting pattern. This mounting position puts the stress of the towed load on the frame where it is the strongest, and places the fasteners in tension, where they are strongest, in terms of the line of action of the load. It also doesn't reduce the ground clearance like the under frame mounted hitch receivers do.

Curt, and many others, make a four bolt hitch, which doesn't require a receiver, that is higher from the ground, meaning your trailer tongue is the correct height, and has a shorter profile than what you wind up with using a hitch receiver and hitch combination.

There are M14 weldnuts, inside the frame, behind the top two holes, and 14-mm clearance holes in the bottom pair. These require M14 nuts. A 7/6-20 SAE bolt will also work (it's one of several SAE thread sizes which are very nearly the same size as metric threads - you can check it for yourself with a nut or thread gauge). It's best to use either metric Grade 12 or SAE grade 10 bolts and nuts. I would not recommend using hardware store fasteners; even the best ones are crap.

 

[musthave]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: You should never tow using a hook mounted to a trailer hitch, mounted to the frame. You should absolutely never snatch the truck, or use it to snatch another vehicle, using hooks mounted to the underside of the frame rails, including the OEM ones that were mounted there. Those hooks are tie downs, not tow hooks. The fact that many people do it doesn't make it right. The frame and drivetrain on an 80 series was never intended to be used as a wrecker. There is a reason you have never seen anyone use a winch mounted under the frame; it's mounted inline with the frame because that's where the frame is strongest: inline with the line of action of the load.

The under frame mounted trailer hitch (I have three sitting in my storage unit) was a port installed dealer accessory, not designed by Toyota specifically for the 80 series. Under frame mounted hitch receivers place the towed load on the frame mounting holes in such a way that the frame section can easily be torn. It also places the fasteners in shear, where they are weakest. The only reason they don't break on first use is their size, quantity and the clamping force they exert on the frame section. This is still not the ideal arrangement.

The 80 series, like the 60s and 40s before them, have mounting holes in the vertical surface of the rearmost frame crossmember. This is where a trailer hitch should be mounted and the pattern is a standard hitch mounting pattern. This mounting position puts the stress of the towed load on the frame where it is the strongest, and places the fasteners in tension, where they are strongest, in terms of the line of action of the load. It also doesn't reduce the ground clearance like the under frame mounted hitch receivers do.

Curt, and many others, make a four bolt hitch, which doesn't require a receiver, that is higher from the ground, meaning your trailer tongue is the correct height, and has a shorter profile than what you wind up with using a hitch receiver and hitch combination.

There are M14 weldnuts, inside the frame, behind the top two holes, and 14-mm clearance holes in the bottom pair. These require M14 nuts. A 7/6-20 SAE bolt will also work (it's one of several SAE thread sizes which are very nearly the same size as metric threads - you can check it for yourself with a nut or thread gauge). It's best to use either metric Grade 12 or SAE grade 10 bolts and nuts. I would not recommend using hardware store fasteners; even the best ones are crap.

I trust @Malleus on this. Well stated.

 

[Tedward]

After the sawzall you can snake a new nut inside the frame rail with something like a coat hanger and get the new bolt started.
I did that after pulling and painting the tow hitch.
Slide a flat and lock washer (cut washer) in there too. This way the bolt/nut tightens up once you get it started since you may not get a wrench in there. Lock tight goo if you like as well.
Easy peasy japanneasy

 

[leonard_nemoy]

Instead of going straight for the sawzall you can also try pulling the hitch away at such an angle as to cause the last bolt to pull away from the frame with enough force to pull the captured nut up against the frame and hold it well enough to finish unscrewing the bolt.

I dont know if that makes any sense..it is kind of hard to explain. In other words just try binding the bolt up using the hitch as a lever to hopefully pull the bolt and force and bind the capture nut against the frame.

Goodluck

 

[HardyDanger]

Short answer: yes.

Awesome, thanks for the detail. That's what I figured.

I'm knee deep in reading this old thread. NATO tow hook ?? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/nato-tow-hook.268411/

I need to recalculate the tow and tongue weight of my boat, it's probably in the 2 - 2.5K lbs. range, sounds like that mounting to the cross member has about 3500LB capacity. Just to don't want to bend that sucker (not towing off road or very far when I do tow it)

try pulling the hitch away at such an angle

Makes perfect sense, but I suspect the bolt is corrosion welded in the captive nut, it spun off the rail with maybe 50+ lbs of force with liquid wrench (which probably didn't get into the threads), but your method is worth a try. Why not?!

One way or another it is coming off...if not just to improve the departure angle/clearance.

 

[Malleus]

Awesome, thanks for the detail. That's what I figured.

I'm knee deep in reading this old thread. NATO tow hook ?? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/nato-tow-hook.268411/

I need to recalculate the tow and tongue weight of my boat, it's probably in the 2 - 2.5K lbs. range, sounds like that mounting to the cross member has about 3500LB capacity. Just to don't want to bend that sucker (not towing off road or very far when I do tow it)


Makes perfect sense, but I suspect the bolt is corrosion welded in the captive nut, it spun off the rail with maybe 50+ lbs of force with liquid wrench (which probably didn't get into the threads), but your method is worth a try. Why not?!

One way or another it is coming off...if not just to improve the departure angle/clearance.

Keep in mind the tow rating for the 80 series was based on the weakest link in the chain when the truck was new: the rear differential. This is not now the case for any 80 series on the road, even if it's been completely restored. The frame is now older and has (probably) been subjected to section reduction or joint degradation due to environmental corrosion or stress. The transmission clutches are worn and so are the gears. There is no real way to tell which is the weak link in any given 80 now. The best rule of thumb is not to exceed the OEM tow rating. And pray.

If I was going to tow something, I'd use an American truck. They're cheap. If you destroy one, it's no great loss.

 

[HardyDanger]

LoL. yes!!
When I bought the boat, I flew one way and rented a Uhaul to drive it the 400 miles home vs towing it that far with the LC. Now I only tow it from the marina to the house (2.5 miles) when I need to work on it dry. Also saves the $350 crane fee that the outboard shop charges if I don't bring it to them on a trailer (they are worse than the toyota dealership, last time I brought it in for a 300hr service it took them 4.5 weeks)

and SHHHHHH.....I think the would kill me if she even caught whiff of someone saying I need to buy another truck.

 

[HardyDanger]

pulling the hitch away at such an angle as to cause the last bolt to pull away from the frame with enough force to pull the captured nut up against the frame and hold it well enough to finish unscrewing the bolt.

Thanks!!! Hot tip. Worked like a charm. I angled it way by resting my floor jack on it, that gave enough bite with the impact gun to spin it off.

then LoL, when to fish the captive nut out and left the magnetic tip of the grabber in the frame rail. WTF?! Too funny. So, just gonna bailing wire that nut down.

 

[HardyDanger]