Soundproofing

[MesquiteDweller]

Hey, I am a new FJ55 owner, just bought my brother's 1972. I am working on redoing the inside and I have replaced the front bench seat with two new Chevy Silverado seats. I now want to carpet it (since there isn't any in it now) and I want to do something to reducing the noise. I have read a few other threads on this site and this is what I have learned from them. I have also read a few online reviews too.

Second Skin Dampilier and Damipilier Pro may be the best quality. Dynamat is good too, but seems to be more money. I did find Fatmat which is supposed to be an equilalent but cost alot less money. I can get 50 sq ft of Fatmat for 60 bucks but the customer service is supposedly horrible. Anyways, I would like anyone's comments on what they would recomend.

My plan was to maybe purchase 20 Sq ft of Second Skin Damplifier Pro and put in the front from fire wall to the back of the front seats. Then either use regular carpet padding or Fatmat for everwhere else.

My next item would be to move the exhaust away from the fire wall which I have heard would be a big help.

Anyways, let me know any suggestions.

 

[Gumby]

I'm always dismayed at the cost of that stuff.

20 sq feet will do a 4x5 area. I don't think that will do the fire wall to the seats.

I'm looking at a just stupid amount of money to do everything I want to do.

 

[sjpV]

Second Skin Audio has 36 sq ft for 155 bucks. Would that be enough? But that is expensive.

Who has had experience with Fatmat? They seem to be the most affordable option.

 

[Gumby]

Second Skin Audio has 36 sq ft for 155 bucks. Would that be enough? But that is expensive.

Who has had experience with Fatmat? They seem to be the most affordable option.

36 would do the fire wall back to the seats, I think, but for what I want to do it's just a start.

36 sq ft would just barely do the roof panel alone.

Sully sez to do what he did to his 80 cost well over $700.

 

[sjpV]

Well, it seems like Fatmat may be the most affordable. I can't afford 700 dollars. But if I get 100 sq ft from Fatmat for only 99 dollars, it may not be as good as Second Skin, but its what I can afford right now. The reviews said the product was okay, but they customer service was bad. It took a couple weeks to get the stuff and you call them and no one answers

Do you know if this kind of sound deadener material goes in addition to regular carpet padding or in place of carpet padding.

 

[porterda]

I tried several types and in my opinion, the Dynamat Extreme is far superior. I did roof, door skins, door panels, and firewall. Really quiet now.
Ihave pictures somewhere in here. Godd luck, installation is easy but tedious.

 

[second skin rep]

My ears were ringing....
Dynamat Extreme is a great product, but there are a bunch of good alternative out there.
I know just about ever major sound deadening company out there ( for automotive use) and can tell you the good ones:

Dynamat
Stinger Road Kill
Hushmat

And to a lesser extent Rammat has a great butyl product.

I am partial to Second Skin for obvious reasons.
There are many internet based companies out there that buy roofing mastic and re-badge it as sound deadening. The problem is that they are asphalt. Some even call their product, rubber infused, or modified rubber.. I suggest staying away from these. Asphalt has a low heat rating and is toxic.
Not saying you have to use my products, but at all coss, stay away from asphalt dampers.

If anyone has any sound deadener questions feel free to email me
service@secondskinaudio.com
or call me
623-533-8193

I am always happy to help regardless of what product you use.

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com



PS
You might want to consider water based damping paints. They are pretty affodable and work very well!

ANT

 

[sjpitts]

I am the older brother who previously owned this FJ55 (and it is still my avatar, old habits die hard)

Do you really need to cover the entire firewall and floor with this stuff to make a difference? it seems like you could get 80 percent of the benefit with half the cost just doing the firewall, tranny hump, and maybe some in front of the front seats.

Is that true? How much would that take?

Carpet (with autopad) is going there and everywhere else, so you would still have coverage over most the area.

And I don't think we should forget that this is 35 year old landcruiser, and it is simply never going to be Lexus Quiet. Spending tons of money trying to get it that quiet seems foolish.

Jared

 

[Gumby]

Maybe, but I plan to try.

 

[second skin rep]

I am the older brother who previously owned this FJ55 (and it is still my avatar, old habits die hard)

Do you really need to cover the entire firewall and floor with this stuff to make a difference? it seems like you could get 80 percent of the benefit with half the cost just doing the firewall, tranny hump, and maybe some in front of the front seats.

Is that true? How much would that take?

Carpet (with autopad) is going there and everywhere else, so you would still have coverage over most the area.

And I don't think we should forget that this is 35 year old landcruiser, and it is simply never going to be Lexus Quiet. Spending tons of money trying to get it that quiet seems foolish.

Jared

With sound deadening, especially vibration damping the more you do the better the results will be.
Now, to reduce resonance you only need about 20% coverage. Not a lot by any means. However, reducing resonance and reducing noise are 2 different things. To reduce noise like engine, exhaust, wind and road noise, you must treat the majority of the panel. Anything left untreated will prove to be a weak point of the project.

To start with, there are 2 different types of noise and a vehicle:

-Structure borne noise - vibrations
-Airborne noise - sound waves

Structure borne needs to be reduced by either adding weight or mass to the panel to lower the resonating frequency so that it does not vibrate as easily with the same amount of energy, or by converting the vibrations in to an alternate energy source; heat.
The conversion of energy from vibrations to heat is much more efficient than mass loading. It weighs less, costs less and will ALWAYS to a better job. Mass loaders are like original Dynamat or the partsexpress blue film stuff. The mats that convert the vibrations in to heat are called constraint layer dampers. These are like Dynamat Extreme, Hushmat, Second Skin Damplifier Pro and such. Usually foil backed mats. Again, butyl are better than asphalt at any weight temperature or frequency. There are also water based and solvent based polymers that can be sprayed on that absorb and convert vibrational energy in to heat. Good an effective!

Since Vibrations (Structure borne noise) account for almost 60% of the total reducible noise in a vehicle, it only makes since to treat the vibrations before anything else, as well as you can. If you skip the vibrations, you skip the majority of the noise.

Air borne sound waves can be reduced a number of ways. Filtering, absorbing, reflecting etc. So, on top of a vibration damper you would add a filter to weed out another 20 % of the total reducible noise, then a barrier that will reflect the noise frequencies that are able to penetrate the first 2 layers under it.

This 3 step approach is idea for making any car quiet like a 7 series BMW. However if you only want to do one layer and nothing else, adding a constraint layer damper is the best way since a full vibration damping job can kill 60% of the total reducible noise.

It would be nice if there were one product that can handle it all but unless you want to spend about $25 psf and add 1.5 inches under your carpet, you are out of luck.

Hope that helps

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

 

[sjpV]

Second SKin Rep

You make references to other products, what do you think of Fatmat? They seem to be the most affordable, but are you cutting out alot quality with them?

I am alittle confused with your recommendations. Now I am a poor college student, so money is an issue, what do you recommend for doing the best job with a little amount of money? Lets say I wanted to spend no more than around 400 dollars (that includes the floor from the rear seat to the fire wall, and the six side panels. In the rear end there is already a layer of Rhino Liner type stuff with some rubber matts on top. So all I want to do is the parts I've mentioned. And if I can do that under 400 dollars that would be great too, becuase I have to set aside about 150 dollars to recarpet too, unless I decide to try that on my own.

Also, being a second skin rep, are you able to get products at a better price? Just curious.

 

[Wayneraintree]

I rhino lined the floor and firewall of my 55 a couple years ago. I used a roll of fat mat on the entire floor and firewall. It reduced a good amount (noticeable) of noise both from the truck and from movement. It also reduced heat in side the cab from the drivetrain. Just my opinion, in a 55 (unless it is some pristine example of a pig), the fatmat worked fine. I also have a carpet and factory mat on top of the rhinoliner and fat mat. It is holding up fine and met my expectation....

 

[sjpV]

Thanks Wayneraintree, that kind of what I want to do because it is the cheapest way to go and I really wanted to hear it from someone who has done and specifically used Fatmat. I think I will go this route just because of the money issue. Mabye down the road if I have more money I might make an improvement.

 

[sjpV]

Wayneraintree,

I was wondering what the total cost of rhino lining and using the fatmat costed you? Did you then recarpeted it?

That might be the way for me if rhino lining isn't too much. I searched and read some other threads and the price didn't seem to be that bad. Did you do the rhino lining yourself or have it done by some shop?

 

[Wayneraintree]

Well, I bought a gallon of Herculiner and after lots of prep, I rolled it on... then one roll of fatmat, same process. I think each product was around 100$ or less...

 

[second skin rep]

Second SKin Rep

You make references to other products, what do you think of Fatmat? They seem to be the most affordable, but are you cutting out alot quality with them?

I am alittle confused with your recommendations. Now I am a poor college student, so money is an issue, what do you recommend for doing the best job with a little amount of money? Lets say I wanted to spend no more than around 400 dollars (that includes the floor from the rear seat to the fire wall, and the six side panels. In the rear end there is already a layer of Rhino Liner type stuff with some rubber matts on top. So all I want to do is the parts I've mentioned. And if I can do that under 400 dollars that would be great too, becuase I have to set aside about 150 dollars to recarpet too, unless I decide to try that on my own.

Also, being a second skin rep, are you able to get products at a better price? Just curious.

This is a tricky question for me to answer.
I do not like to bash my competitors So I willbe as honest and.. diplomatic as I can be.

Fatmat is somthing I would never ever use in my car, or would allow anyone I know to use. It is rubberized asphalt, which is toxic and has a low heat rating. I know the company that makes the material. They are a company that makes products for the roofing industry.
It works, in many cases, but the drawbacks are too severe for me to reccomend.
I am not above reccomending my competitors products. There are lots of good ones out there. Fatmat is not one of them however.
Second Skin is not the cheapest out there. There is a very good reson for this. We spend more money on higher quality raw materials to make the materials.
If you want a good, inexpensive material check out raamat.
or for more options and a decent review look at
www.sounddeadenershowdown.com

Good stuff there.
The rhino lining is a great idea for protection. It will reduce noise, but is not nearly as effective as a damper. This is because Rhino, inyati, Line-X and the others are poly eureas, which are not elastomeric, and can nto convert the vibraions in to any different energy. They add weight to the panels making it more difficult for them to vibrate. but Not very efficiently.

As far as getting the stuff for cheap? Yeah. I own the company.

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

 

[Wayneraintree]

Mud discount????

 

[usmcruiser]

36 would do the fire wall back to the seats, I think, but for what I want to do it's just a start.

36 sq ft would just barely do the roof panel alone.

Sully sez to do what he did to his 80 cost well over $700.

Is 36' from the top of the fire wall to the back of the front seats? Or is it to the back of the rear seats where the hinges for the back pad are?

Does anybody know what the total square feet is for the top of the fire wall down and all the way back to behind the rear seats where he floor drops down from the rear cargo area? Also what is the total square feet for the roof?

TIA,

 

[Gumby]

The 36 sq/ft figure is really close for the roof. It's a smidge less than that, but not much.

I can figure the other pretty easy this morning.

 

[usmcruiser]

Cool thanks.