Solenoid Problem (1 Viewer)

[Kalawang]

I've been having a bit of difficulty with an intermittent starting problem. When I switch on the ignition the starter sometimes just whirr's away but the bendix doesn't get pushed into place so no start. I've replaced the starter completely, but the problem persists. Batteries are fresh.

My 1HD-T uses a 24 volt starter thus my LC80 has 2 batteries. I tracked the problem to a second solenoid of sorts that apparently controls my charge rate for the two batteries and also feeds my starter with the needed voltage for it to work. I really don't know what else it does, but I think this part is the source of my trouble and I need to replace it. Unfortunately LC80's with 24 volt starters are not sold locally and so no such part is available here except as a junk yard product. I'm reluctant to go that route as failure here is very inconvenient.

I did a search here and there was another person with the same problem on a 60 series but there was no solution for him.

I would appreciate any address that can offer me a new part.


Kalawang

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Let me first chastize you for being a dog (for getting to own an HD anything) and then say that this is going to be a difficult fix as there are few on this site with HD experience.

Try this list:

dtlc@helios.net

There you'll find help.


Tom

 

[landtank]

I didn't think this was possible. Isn't the plunger that makes the contacts to supply 12v to the motor one in the same as the bendix drive. So the drive would have to be engaged if the motor was turning.


Are these OEM starters?

 

[Kalawang]

Tom,


Thanks for the kind words. The 1HD-T is reasonably common in the Philippines these days.


Landtank,

The Bendix, as I understand it, is a gear attached to a shaft that is pulled or pushed by the solenoid to allow the starter motor to crank the engine. I have a 24 volt starter that makes getting the engine started a one click affair when it works. The second solenoid, the one I'm looking for, is apparently necessary for a slew of electric activities in my LC.

For now the problem is intermittent, but the day WILL come and I'd really like to replace this part before that day.


Kalawang

 

[sixsracing]

If you sat down and looked at the wiring going to the offending solenoid and away to the starter I will bet you could engineer something similar that will bypass that solenoid and get the proper voltage to the starter. An old Ford external starter solenoid for instance. If you can find a wiring diagram and post it, I'm positive that some of the guys here can figure something out if you are not confident about it.

 

[robbie]

I do not think it is a typical solenoid as much as a series/parrell swithch that engages to give you 24 to the starter(should be a good size). Some thing like a starter solieniod that engages to make 24 to the starter. It sound like you are not always getting 24 volts to the starter. I would start looking at this device. I have no real experence with the toyota systems(12/24), but this is the typical set up for most 12/24 v systems. later robbie

 

[Kalawang]

sixsracing,

There are a number of alternatives available. For now, I am trying to preserve the truck in the form it came to me. If that fails, I think I have some people who can jury rig something to keep my truck running.


Robbie,

I agree the solenoid is not typical. In some ways it acts like a relay and others like a switch of sorts. If I fail to find a new part, I might buy a junkyard product to replace this one and then open this one up to see if repairs are possible.


Kalawang

 

[CharlieS]

Kalawang,

You say:

"In some ways it acts like a relay and others like a switch of sorts."

Not to be mean, but a relay is just a switch. An electromagnetic switch.

So it isn't really all that odd that a relay would act like a switch.

Charlie

 

[Kalawang]

CharlieS,

Agreed.

The peice is interesting for what it seems to do. The intent to dismantle it at some time I can get a replacement is real.


Kalawang

 

[robbie]

If it can be opened up, what you may find is the copper contacts are black and pitted. If so these, can be then cleaned and leveled out, it would work fine for a long time, there may even be rebuild parts for it if you could contact some country with this system parts manager. good luck robbie

 

[Kalawang]

Robbie,

I agree that contact points are probably worn out inside the thing. So far I've been able to get it back to work by pounding it a bit with my hand. It wouldn't be such a problem opening it up if the business of re-sealing it weren't so chancy. I'd have to find a sealant that could endure deisel engine bay temperatures and a bit more in case I overheat my engine at some future time. There is also the possible added problem of my country being a tropical country that gets summer temperatures all year round with a little bit of cooling in the rainy season. I doubt simple epoxy would do all that well. Maybe some gasket maker as a sealant ? It's used right on the engine block, so it has possibilities.


Kalawang

 

[Gold Finger]

I've been having a bit of difficulty with an intermittent starting problem. When I switch on the ignition the starter sometimes just whirr's away but the bendix doesn't get pushed into place so no start. I've replaced the starter completely, but the problem persists. Batteries are fresh.

My 1HD-T uses a 24 volt starter thus my LC80 has 2 batteries. I tracked the problem to a second solenoid of sorts that apparently controls my charge rate for the two batteries and also feeds my starter with the needed voltage for it to work. I really don't know what else it does, but I think this part is the source of my trouble and I need to replace it. Unfortunately LC80's with 24 volt starters are not sold locally and so no such part is available here except as a junk yard product. I'm reluctant to go that route as failure here is very inconvenient.

I did a search here and there was another person with the same problem on a 60 series but there was no solution for him.

I would appreciate any address that can offer me a new part.


Kalawang

UK address http://www.milneroffroad.com/HDJ80.HTM

Dutch Address http://www.all-american.nl/index.html

For addresses closer to you try 80,scool

Check battery voltage on both while disconnected!

 

[Kalawang]

The UK address has interesting parts, none of which appear to be my current need. The all-american address refuses me a list of products because I don't have permission. I've been trying both addresses for a few hours now. I'm currently having trouble with my own internet connection and life is currently very interesting for me.


Kalawang

 

[Kalawang]

My ISP finally got it's act together. Here is the picture of what I think is the offending part I need to replace.

I checked out a U.S. type LC yesterday and didn't find the part in that one, so I suppose I'm not going to have any luck here. I'm giving it a try nevertheless.

For now I'm also exploring options to re-wire my set-up either to attach another solenoid to do the 24 volt thing, or to change to a 12 volt starter, whichever looks cheaper and reliable.


Kalawang

 

[Gold Finger]

The Dutch address is not running properly you need to e-mail them with your request or phone. I have not used them my self as yet but others say they are helpful. have you tried any one on 80'scool there might be some one closer to you who may be able to help. If you have major problems trying to locate a part I could try a Toyota Dealer here fore you or a breakers perhaps.

Good luck with you quest let us know how you get on. Just thought have you posted on the international section?

 

[Kalawang]

Goldfinger,


The dutch address actually worked for me from the start. It was the UK address that I had difficulty accessing, but that too works now. Unfortunately both appear to be more concerned with other parts, as I saw on their listings. As you diplomatically pointed out, it's a long ways from home to be looking for parts. I was actually hoping someone from Japan would give an address, but life happens.

I'm currently in the process of exploring 2 alternatives. One, a conversion to a 12 volt starter. The other, adapting some other solenoid to do the job this one can no longer do. I'll take pictures when I settle on the solution. Cost will probably be the determinant.

Kalawang


Landtank,

I just re-scanned your comment and noticed my response to you was non-responsive to your question. I offer my apologies.

To the best of my knowledge, the 24 volt starter is standard for the model I have and some others of later years. I have seen the same set-up in a lot of the LC's brought directly from Japan and have come to the point of taking them for granted. I like them. You hardly get to crank the engine before it starts.


Kalawang

 

[Gold Finger]

"To the best of my knowledge, the 24 volt starter is standard for the model I have and some others of later years. I have seen the same set-up in a lot of the LC's brought directly from Japan and have come to the point of taking them for granted. I like them. You hardly get to crank the engine before it starts.

Kalawang"

24 volt starting on my HDJ80 1HD-T and is standard over here as I would imagine on all Diesels and 12 volt running.

 

[Kalawang]

"To the best of my knowledge, the 24 volt starter is standard for the model I have and some others of later years. I have seen the same set-up in a lot of the LC's brought directly from Japan and have come to the point of taking them for granted. I like them. You hardly get to crank the engine before it starts.

Kalawang"

24 volt starting on my HDJ80 1HD-T and is standard over here as I would imagine on all Diesels and 12 volt running.

Since the part I'm looking for is not available with Toyota Phili[ppines, and it's a Toyota part as is seen from the label, I must conclude that all locally assembled cruisers are 12 volt systems. I don't recall seeing any local deisels. That's strange and worthy of further investigation. I might be buying trouble if I try to plug a 12 volt starter into my deisel.


Kalawang

 

[Kalawang]

Doggone it.

I hate car electricians.

I took my LC down to an expert for modifications and he immediatly dismissed my problematic solenoid as being without problems and working fine. Made me feel real good about my intelligence. Next he tracked my problem to a relay hidden behind a footwell panel and after a bit of testing found it defective and beyond repair. The he tried a 12 volt start of my engine at my urging, and showed me that my battery could die from the effort and still fail to start the deisel. He then lectured me about the size of my deisel and why it came with a 24 volt starter. Made me feel real good about my intelligence and the quality of my planning.

The relay was near useless and I was prepared to struggle along with it while desperately looking for a replacement, but this guy wasn't through with me. He hot wired my car so that my starter could be properly fed albeit my wiring would probably have a limited number of starts to it. Still he thought it was hefty enough to give me what he described as a " long time " to find and buy the needed relay.

After paying my bill, I took revenge on the guy by tipping him more than a days wages. My car is a one click start again, but a shorter click than before.


Kalawang

 

[Gold Finger]

That is good do not worry about the misdiagnoses it sounds as though you have found some one who knows what he is talking about. If it is just a relay maybe you can source a suitable replacement from any motor factors. I would be interested to know more about this relay though. Are you LFTHD or Right Hand Drive where you are so I can see were this relay is and a description or photo would be welcome as I only have a Haynes Manual and not a FSM which are evidently discontinued over here in any case. Good luck with this and let us now how you get on.

Have you compared your 1HD-T with any of the petrol models driving that is and what do you think of it?