So what's driving an 80 like vs a 100?

[e9999]

agree with most of the above.

But I'll confirm that our 100's engine is way quieter than the 80's. In fact, I have been guilty a couple of times of leaving the 100 trans in a lower gear cuz I didn't realize the engine was going at 3000. Just could not hear it. And not cuz the truck is otherwise loud either. Very very quiet and smooth engine...

both are great, but different emphases. For most people the 100 is a better choice though. I'm also thinking the 100 engine is more reliable and easy than the 80, considering the cooling and HG issues of the latter.

 

[Eicca]

I'm also thinking the 100 engine is more reliable and easy than the 80, considering the cooling and HG issues of the latter.

Not the 3FEs Well maybe cooling...

 

[e9999]

Not the 3FEs Well maybe cooling...

we're not talking about squirrel-powered 80 engines here, only real ones that run off gasoline and stuff...

 

[Eicca]

we're not talking about squirrel-powered 80 engines here, only real ones that run off gasoline and stuff...

At least I can run squirrels when gas prices go through the roof

 

[coax]

Regarding engine noise, I can only compare to the 2uz in a tundra vs. the 1fz in a lx450. The 2uz is definitly louder in the tundra. However I'm not sure how much of this is actual engine noise vs. more sound insulation in the lx vs. a truck. I would expect the 100/470 to have probably more sound proofing than a tundra. As for power, the tundra moves real good but is also a full 1100 pounds lighter than a 100 series....

fwiw.

 

[Dave 2000]

we're not talking about squirrel-powered 80 engines here, only real ones that run off gasoline and stuff...

Hmmm jealous of my 30 + mpg LC 80 huh? That's GREEN as well, shameless plug

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/365673-my-lc-80-thread.html

regards

Dave

 

[OverLand Cruisers]

The 100 is an awesome highway vehicle, handles well for an SUV, great power, comfortable and quiet, and is capable in the bushes. It's my going to town vehicle.
I love my 80 for what it is; an outstanding off-road vehicle that is designed to operate in third world conditions, yet is still comfortable on the highway.
With the 80 I normally find myself driving the speed limit, with the 100 I have to keep myself in check.
Perfect pair, now I just need another 40 for checking the mail!

 

[Tofudebeest]

All 100 series seem quite Lexus-like to me; they might all be LX470s as far as I am concerned. The LX450 still seems like a Cruiser to me, burled wood dash and all.

 

[Ebag333]

The LX450 still seems like a Cruiser to me, burled wood dash and all.

My 450 has a lot less wood than a lot of LC's.

 

[firetruck41]

Reposted from another thread.[/url]

I have seen those textbook figures before. As I said, not my experience. I never got out a tape measure. I did drive both for about a year and a half, while they shared the driveway together. They even both had nearly identical mileage on them... but don't let anyone's experience cloud the issue when someone asks how "driving an 80 is, compared to a 100."

If your 80 series braking was worse than your 100 series (in actual distance, not "feel"), then it's because you neglected the braking system.

I don't believe so.

 

[ralphy1997]

OK, I look at the specs between the 4.5l 80 and the early V8 100 and the torque numbers and HP numbers aren't very different. I know the 100 will tow 4k with what can only be called "aplomb" and have taken it over long steep Cascade mountain passes and it has just flown up them with 5k on the hitch (with load-distributing hitch, mind you). So I tend to think the later 4.5l 80 (which is lighter than the 100 to start) with 4k tow would do about as well as the 100 with 5k tow? Or is the torque band on the 100 much broader?

I appreciate your guys input as while I can test drive an 80 before buying, I can't put 4k on the hitch and go over the North Cascades Highway/Rt 20. I only do that once a year (and back), but I need to know it can do it. We did it once with a Jeep Gand Cherokee with the 5k tow, which was tow-rated the same on the books as a 100 (6,500), and it wheezed and coughed and nearly overheated. Same conditions with the 100 was a little strain but a steady 50mph with no feeling of being "at the limit" like in the Jeep.

Since no one has answered these questions for you, I'll take a stab. First off, I've never driven a 100 series, so I don't know how they compare but I have towed with my 80 and driven a lot of miles up steep mountain grades (with and without a trailer).

The claim of the 80 in their sales brochures is that it is "powered by a muscular 4.5-liter 24-valve in-line 6-cylinder engine that produces 212-horsepower at 4600 rpm and 275 Ib-ft of torque at 3200 rpm. Ninety percent of [an 80's] substantial torque output is available from as low as 1400 rpm all the way up to 4600 rpm, promoting excellent towing capability." Translation: the torque is more concentrated on the low end of the curve, which means it's easy to get a load moving and to keep it moving but if you want to maintain speed up much of a grade, you're SOL. The 80 has a hard enough time getting itself up hills quickly let alone towing anything.

You will likely be able to tow your 4000lb trailer up the Cascades (though to be honest, I've never towed anything that heavy with mine) but you won't break any land speed records doing it. I'm also positive that you won't feel like you're going to break down like you did in the Jeep. You'll go slow, but the power will be solid. With a Toyota, it's not a question of whether you'll make it or not but how long it will take. If you're concerned about overheating, there are a few mods on the forum that can help with that.

I would just echo what someone else posted earlier. If you're going to tow, why not just do it with the 100?

 

[Ebag333]

I have seen those textbook figures before. As I said, not my experience. I never got out a tape measure. I did drive both for about a year and a half, while they shared the driveway together. They even both had nearly identical mileage on them... but don't let anyone's experience cloud the issue when someone asks how "driving an 80 is, compared to a 100."

The way it feels does not necessarily translate to actual results. I've driven my folks F150 a ton, and hate the way the brakes feel. It always feels to me like it takes a lot longer to stop than my 80. In reality, it's pretty close to the same, but even if you put me in each side by side (which I've done) I wouldn't believe it unless I measured the distance myself (which I have). It's something about the feel of the electronic style brakes that makes it feel very different.

Now the truck will out stop either of those by a good margin. Every time I drive that (if I haven't for a while), I nearly put us through the windshield. I have no complaints about the braking capabilities in my truck, but hers is significantly better.

While feel and experience is good, actual measured repeatable results are better. Just like I'll trust actual dyno numbers for HP and torque over someone's butt dyno every day. Don't let facts get in the way of your experience.

 

[firetruck41]

The way it feels does not necessarily translate to actual results. I've driven my folks F150 a ton, and hate the way the brakes feel. It always feels to me like it takes a lot longer to stop than my 80. In reality, it's pretty close to the same, but even if you put me in each side by side (which I've done) I wouldn't believe it unless I measured the distance myself (which I have). It's something about the feel of the electronic style brakes that makes it feel very different.

Now the truck will out stop either of those by a good margin. Every time I drive that (if I haven't for a while), I nearly put us through the windshield. I have no complaints about the braking capabilities in my truck, but hers is significantly better.

While feel and experience is good, actual measured repeatable results are better. Just like I'll trust actual dyno numbers for HP and torque over someone's butt dyno every day. Don't let facts get in the way of your experience.

I'm not sure what "electronic style brakes" are, mine were both hydraulic. But yeah, they definitely "felt" stronger on the 100.
Unfortunately, I don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on testing instruments or track time, to quantify my "feelings", so I will have to admit that I can not disprove some road test from a magazine 15 years ago. I do know, if someone were to ask me which I would drive if my life depended on it stopping quicker, I wouldn't think twice, and would take the 100 series.
I think my experience is relevant, in light of the original question. The OP did not ask what the magazine road test specs were, though he might appreciate those too.

 

[Ebag333]

I'm not sure what "electronic style brakes" are, mine were both hydraulic. But yeah, they definitely "felt" stronger on the 100.

From that same thread as quoted above.

The ’80 has large and thick front rotors with Y shaped cooling fins, big advantage in cooling for repeated stops, most others have smaller rotors with simple holes, less power and more prone to fade. They have 4 piston calipers for more even, powerful pad pressure, most others have ether 2 piston or single/sliding pin setups. The rears are large and Y vented, with single piston sliding pin calipers, where most others have solid disk or just drums. The 100 setup is very similar.

The hydraulic system is over boosted, the master cylinder is small when compared to the calipers. This makes for high cylinder/pad pressures and a relatively long peddle travel. Some don’t like it, I prefer it, makes smooth brake modulation very easy. The booster is standard tandem vacuum and your right if vacuum is lost there is only a couple of pumps of boost available, then you still have full braking, just have to push the peddle harder.

The later rigs like the ‘100 use and electrically pumped nitrogen setup, this produces a very short peddle travel. I don’t have enough seat time to be smooth with it, IMHO harder to modulate. If it were to electrically fail you have 3 pumps then NO BRAKES! Luckily they have proven reliable, I can think of a few places that I have been where I wouldn’t be comfortable with 3 pumps of brakes!

Both systems are hydraulic, but the method of activating them isn't. When I say electric style, I more mean that they use the electrically pumped nitrogen setup, to me it relates to the difference between digital and analog. The feel of brakes in the 100 series tends to be more on/off, while the feel of the brakes in the 80 series there's a gradual increase of braking pressure as you push the pedal down.

Some people like the 100 series brakes because when you press down on the pedal, you get most of your full braking right away. Good for stopping quickly, bad if you need/want more control. The 80 series braking requires you to push the pedal down all the way before you get your full braking, giving you more control but requiring more pedal travel to get the same braking effect. This "feels" to some like it has weaker brakes, even though it doesn't.

I dislike the 100 series brakes as it removes control from me. Plenty of times on slick surfaces you need to modulate your braking, with the 100 series you have to rely more on your ABS for that or be extremely precise with how far you press down the pedal. With a longer pedal travel you have more room for manipulation, which allows better modulation.

I haven't spent a ton of seat time in a vehicle with that style brakes, but have spent some in my folks F150 on ice. Nearly every time I braked ABS engaged because I could not modulate the braking well enough to stop without kicking in ABS. On my truck, ABS only engages when I want it to. Guess which stops faster on ice?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

100s have more weak spots off the pavement, some of which seem inexcusable for an "expedition" vehicle. Things like the buried starter, the $1500 master cylinder, the rear axle seals, and frankly, the entire front end.

With that said, a 100 does everthing better than an 80 on the pavement. Everything. Super nice ride, good power, more air bags, lots of creature comforts. My 100 series owning friends say to avoid the Cruisers with the built in Nav system.

The 80 isn't a perfect truck, but it's close, and has to be the most versitile vehicle ever made. It's good on the road, good on a trip, good off the road, and capable in the real rough stuff too. As a bonus, it retains much of the easy to service goodness of the earlier Land Cruisers. It is hard to find clean low mile examples any more.

 

[firetruck41]

I haven't spent a ton of seat time in a vehicle with that style brakes, but have spent some in my folks F150 on ice. Nearly every time I braked ABS engaged because I could not modulate the braking well enough to stop without kicking in ABS. On my truck, ABS only engages when I want it to. Guess which stops faster on ice?

I'm sure you "feel" your truck stops faster in those conditions. But you really couldn't say... unless you have done repeatable, measured tests... could you?

 

[Ebag333]

I'm sure you "feel" your truck stops faster in those conditions. But you really couldn't say... unless you have done repeatable, measured tests... could you?

ABS vs non-ABS is a no brainer in slick conditions. Properly controlled, non-ABS will stop quicker every single time.

It's actually a misnomer that ABS is supposed to make you stop quicker.

From the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration:
Antilock Brake Systems (ABS)

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
Perhaps, but that's not the main purpose of ABS. It is a system designed to help you maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not necessarily make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and most systems may shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as gravel or unpacked snow, ABS may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or icy conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.

Basically the purpose of ABS is to assist drives who cannot control their vehicle when the hits the fan.

That's actually why I like the braking and ABS in the 80 vs the 100 (or my folks F150), you can control the braking and be right at that point before ABS engages (or when you just barely feel it engage, back off slightly). With the 100 series, if you try that what tends to happen is you feel the ABS engage fully (not barely), you back off the pedal, and your brakes are mostly if not fully disengaged. Since the pedal travel is so short, you either have all or nothing.

I've done many practice runs with my 80 running over the same area and seeing how braking/handling differently affects how long the stopping distance is. While I haven't done any thing that extensive with my folks F150, I have done a few test runs with their truck to get a feel for it in slick conditions. The stopping distance isn't anywhere near what I can achieve with my 80, not even close. If we were talking about a couple feet difference, than that'd easily be attributed to differences in temp, conditions, tire pressure, etc. But we're talking about a very large and noticeable difference, I blow right past the spot where I'd stop with my 80 and usually can watch it in the rear view mirror.

I like the short pedal travel and quick ABS engagement for people who don't know how to drive on snow/ice though. I've seen those people drive without it, and it's never pretty.

 

[Buckru]

I'm sure you "feel" your truck stops faster in those conditions. But you really couldn't say... unless you have done repeatable, measured tests... could you?

LMAO

 

[firetruck41]

ABS vs non-ABS is a no brainer in slick conditions. Properly controlled, non-ABS will stop quicker every single time.

It's actually a misnomer that ABS is supposed to make you stop quicker.

From the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration:
Antilock Brake Systems (ABS)



Basically the purpose of ABS is to assist drives who cannot control their vehicle when the hits the fan.

That's actually why I like the braking and ABS in the 80 vs the 100 (or my folks F150), you can control the braking and be right at that point before ABS engages (or when you just barely feel it engage, back off slightly). With the 100 series, if you try that what tends to happen is you feel the ABS engage fully (not barely), you back off the pedal, and your brakes are mostly if not fully disengaged. Since the pedal travel is so short, you either have all or nothing.

I've done many practice runs with my 80 running over the same area and seeing how braking/handling differently affects how long the stopping distance is. While I haven't done any thing that extensive with my folks F150, I have done a few test runs with their truck to get a feel for it in slick conditions. The stopping distance isn't anywhere near what I can achieve with my 80, not even close. If we were talking about a couple feet difference, than that'd easily be attributed to differences in temp, conditions, tire pressure, etc. But we're talking about a very large and noticeable difference, I blow right past the spot where I'd stop with my 80 and usually can watch it in the rear view mirror.

I like the short pedal travel and quick ABS engagement for people who don't know how to drive on snow/ice though. I've seen those people drive without it, and it's never pretty.

In light of the lack of data for repeatable, measurable tests with your 80 vs. the F150, in the scenario you posted above, and keeping in mind your experience/evaluation testing the brakes on both vehicles, I will give you the exact same credit you give to me, and the year or two I spent daily driving an 80 and 100, day in day out, and the evaluations I gave them.

 

[Ebag333]

In light of the lack of data for repeatable, measurable tests with your 80 vs. the F150, in the scenario you posted above, and keeping in mind your experience/evaluation testing the brakes on both vehicles, I will give you the exact same credit you give to me, and the year or two I spent daily driving an 80 and 100, day in day out, and the evaluations I gave them.

Ah, but the difference is my experience matches repeated measured tests from certified 3rd party companies who test this for a living.

Yours.....

And besides, you're nit picking one specific scenario that's impossible to repeat (ice/snow scenario).