So uh... I got a buttload of dirt in my turbo

[joshoisasleep]

I did REALLY bad things to my truck and now it's stopped working...

So I just got a buttload of dirt among other things in my turbo. The how and why of it will be saved for another thread posted in the expeditions section, but needless to say, I need to do an emergency turbo clean.

My best guess was if I just removed it and soaked it in gasoline for the night??

I have it removed now... I'd rather avoid disassembling it since I'm not in a place where I can get gaskets or whatever.

Advice?!?



BTW I'm in Chile which is a developed country almost like Canada or the US, but I'm in a small tourist town so there's no truck stuff here.

 

[joshoisasleep]

OK I've just discovered it's so much more than that. Truck wouldn't start today and assuming it was the dirt in the turbo, I removed the intake and felt that there was a lot of resistance on the compressor when turned by hand. As a result, I figured exhaust or intake blockage caused by jammed turbo was stopping the truck from running.

WRONG.

Truck cranks but won't start chugging. Things I've done to it in the last 6 days:
- run it on incredibly dusty roads with a busted-through air filter (I didn't know!)
- driven it non-stop on rediculously bumpy roads... like to the point where my exhaust pipe and one of my shocks tore off from the bumpiness alone...
- cold started at very cold temperatures... fuel was partially gelled, but only just on the surface.

Here's the thing... during all this I had no problem, it is only now two days after finishing this extremely destructive expedition that it is refusing to start. The only thing I can think is perhaps something to do with my air filter adaptation. Yesterday I went to replace my destroyed filter only to find that there were none in the town and so I had to adapt one but cutting it and siliconing it back together. Is it possible that the silicone has caused my issues?? Perhaps I didn't wait long enough for it to dry and some of it got into my engine's air passages or valves?

Any advice or thoughts would be helpful before I begin to strip down my engine in this entirely parts-free place.


P.S. I feel like I'm always posting "help! I'm stupid!" threads... but don't worry this one will have a very awesome trip report to go with it when I get the chance!

 

[mainlander]

I take it this is just on the compressor side? Maybe all you need to do is hold the turbo so the compressor side is pointing down and hose it out from the air outlet. I would think soaking it in anything might get past the seal into the bearing housing (maybe not, but I wouldn't want to risk it) which may not be good for the bearings so I would just localize the cleaning.

Edit: Oh, I guess we were typing at the same time.

Forget what I said than.

Sorry to hear that Josh.

 

[joshoisasleep]

Edit: Oh, I guess we were typing at the same time.

Forget what I said than.

Sorry to hear that Josh.

No, I still do need to clean the turbo somehow as well, so thanks for the advice!

 

[cruiser_guy]

On a diesel there are only three things that stop it from working, fuel, air and electrical. Obviously the batteries are OK so thats off the list.
Check glow plugs unless you are in a place where it is really warm, say 80F or better. It may fail to start even when it's warm out so don't discount that.
Crack an injector pipe and see if you have fuel seepage when cranking the engine. If not bleed the system starting with the fuel filter and proceeding to each and every injector. When you have fuel seepage at each injector while cranking it should start unless compression is bad.
As for cleaning the turbo, I'm with Rod. Use compressed air ONLY and do the absolute best you can with compressed air. The gasoline may well damage seals and gaskets. Is there crap in the intake manifold too? If so, how much crap is there? If there is a significant amount of crap in the intake manifold you may have badly scored the bores and ruined compression (diesels REQUIRE good compression to run). Vacuum out the intake manifold and if possible even the cylinders. Find someone who can do a compression check on the engine. 400psi is ideal, 280psi is borderline, anything less.....

If you get it started give it a couple of oil changes with a short interval in between (maybe a few hundered K's) to flush out the crap that is undoubtedly in the engine.

Tell us what happened, we're interested.

 

[Diesel42]

From your post you indicate there is dirt in the turbo. How about the crossover tube, throttle body, etc. You might have to unbolt these items and continue to the intake,etc. If it got past there...........just depends on what the damage report will be. But it should still run.

 

[amaurer]

This sounds like it could be bad news. Keep the turbo out of the equation for not, its obviously a separate (and lesser) problem than your non-starting. I really hope that you haven't scored the s*** out of your cylinders, however that could be a real possibility, so be prepared.

In order of probability, I'd check:

-First check that when you turn the key to run or start that the EDIC motor moves out of the stop position. Motor could be jammed with dirt, or it could be coincidence.

-Check that your glow system is working. If you don't have tools/meters it should be enough to just touch the plugs after a glow and see if they're getting hot.

-Crank an injector line and look for some spray while you crank to ensure fuel is being pumped.

Also, while this won't affect the starting issue, check the venturi's near the intake butterfly, as well as the vacuum line to the IP. If they're plugged you won't have throttle control, your engine will rev all the way up if they can't apply some suck to the IP.

 

[joshoisasleep]

When you crack an injector line... where exactly am I cracking?

 

[joshoisasleep]

I have tools and a good multimeter as well as an old style analog meter, but I don't really know how to use them to test the glow plugs. I'm still learning about diesel engines... where can I actually touch the glow plugs??

The power in this town sucks so my lifeline to mud is my laptop's battery and a dial up connection...

 

[marting]

When you crack an injector line... where exactly am I cracking?

Crack is such a dramatic word... You just loosen the 17mm nut that holds the injector-pipe on the injector
On the end of injectors. No need to take it all apart, just loosen it.. diesel will (should) squirt out.

 

[joshoisasleep]

Tell us what happened, we're interested.

It's a long story. Here's the thread of the how and why...

Crack is such a dramatic word... You just loosen the 17mm nut that holds the injector-pipe on the injector
On the end of injectors. No need to take it all apart, just loosen it.. diesel will (should) squirt out.

Gotcha, thanks!

 

[joshoisasleep]

From your post you indicate there is dirt in the turbo. How about the crossover tube, throttle body, etc. You might have to unbolt these items and continue to the intake,etc. If it got past there...........just depends on what the damage report will be. But it should still run.

I have removed the turbo and the crossover tube is coated with oil on the inside... I haven't inspected for other crap yet. I'll take a look in the throttle body. I still haven't solved the old turbo spitting oil thing... if it's just bad seals on a new turbo, I can't imagine how I could convince either Garrett or the installer to honor their warranties, since they'd probably both point at each other. Argh.

This sounds like it could be bad news. Keep the turbo out of the equation for not, its obviously a separate (and lesser) problem than your non-starting.

Good point

I really hope that you haven't scored the **** out of your cylinders, however that could be a real possibility, so be prepared.

If that's the case, I'll need to re-sleeve them? There's supposed to be a landcruiser parts factory in Argentina from what I understand, so I may be able to get this kind of thing cheap...

In order of probability, I'd check:

-First check that when you turn the key to run or start that the EDIC motor moves out of the stop position. Motor could be jammed with dirt, or it could be coincidence.

-Check that your glow system is working. If you don't have tools/meters it should be enough to just touch the plugs after a glow and see if they're getting hot.

-Crank an injector line and look for some spray while you crank to ensure fuel is being pumped.

Also, while this won't affect the starting issue, check the venturi's near the intake butterfly, as well as the vacuum line to the IP. If they're plugged you won't have throttle control, your engine will rev all the way up if they can't apply some suck to the IP.

I will go through this list now.

 

[joshoisasleep]

In order of probability, I'd check:

-First check that when you turn the key to run or start that the EDIC motor moves out of the stop position. Motor could be jammed with dirt, or it could be coincidence.

EDIC motor moves to what appears to be the correct position.

-Check that your glow system is working. If you don't have tools/meters it should be enough to just touch the plugs after a glow and see if they're getting hot.

Will attempt to test this (I'll google this... feel free to post idiots how-to's). I'm doubtful though, since I think I have been able to start it at home (similar air temps to now) without glowing at all after a few cranks.

-Crank an injector line and look for some spray while you crank to ensure fuel is being pumped.

Fuel comes out of every injector line. Additionally the exhaust manifold smokes when I turn it over.


So I know the problem is not fuel (right?). At this point I am hoping HOPING that there is in fact a chunk of silicone blocking air somewhere from my air filter fix. Can anyone suggest a suitably small air passage that would be blocked by a small amount of silicone? Perhaps it is gumming my valves closed? Hmmm I better go remove the valve cover...

 

[joshoisasleep]

-Check that your glow system is working. If you don't have tools/meters it should be enough to just touch the plugs after a glow and see if they're getting hot.

Touched the plugs by hand and discovered that they do not seem to get warm. Really surprised... what amazing luck that they didn't do this out in the bush and the freezing cold...

Will try to deal with glow plug issue and hope it is the main problem.

 

[amaurer]

So I know the problem is not fuel (right?). At this point I am hoping HOPING that there is in fact a chunk of silicone blocking air somewhere from my air filter fix. Can anyone suggest a suitably small air passage that would be blocked by a small amount of silicone? Perhaps it is gumming my valves closed? Hmmm I better go remove the valve cover...

Fuel sounds OK, yes.

I kinda doubt that you have silicone blockage somewhere. It'd take a lot to plug up an air passage completely enough to keep the truck from starting. I also suspect that your valves could crush or cut through any wimpy silicone that hung over the edge.

Touched the plugs by hand and discovered that they do not seem to get warm. Really surprised... what amazing luck that they didn't do this out in the bush and the freezing cold...

Will try to deal with glow plug issue and hope it is the main problem.

What is the ambient temperature where you are? If its above "freezing cold" then you should be able to start the truck after some heavy duty cranking, even without glow (itll run like s***, obviously).

Put your hand by the stink tube (breather) while you crank it; feel anything? It should be less extreme than when its running, but if you're getting a bunch of air from there while just cranking it could mean you're not holding compression

 

[cruiser_guy]

To check glow plugs with your multimeter remove the bar that connects them all then measure resistance between the tip and the engine block. No continuity is a burned out plug, anything less than 400 ohms is good.

What's the compression numbers on the engine?

 

[joshoisasleep]

Have never compression tested engine.

I just tested the plugs with my multimeter and all were good but I didn't remove the bar first, so I'll have to do that.

Here's what the plugs look like...


Is it just me or is that actually carbony sand?

P.S. the cleaner looking two on the left were wiped with a paper towel.


I'm thinking now maybe it's all a combination of lowered compression due to scoring and the plugs not glowing? they tested fine but did not warm up even after two full glow cycles.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Well you've got the plugs out now, check continuity between the tips where the nuts are and the threads where it goes into the head.

I don't like the looks of the tips of the glow plugs.

 

[amaurer]

When I pull my plugs they're generally very black, but the coating is very very fine, while yours does look suspiciously granular or chunky. Could be not-so-good but I can't tell anything for certain from that photo.

Do you get any signs of life when you try to start it? All it takes is one good glow plug to get a cylinder firing up, which is often enough to start the others. If you get nothing at all (no stumbling etc) then something is affecting all your cylinders at once.

Glow plugs could fail en masse, but its unlikely. Could be a glow relay thats just not giving any of them power. But as I said, if its warmish out you should be able to fire that engine up without em.

Scoring isn't the only way crud can wreck your compression. Maybe you gummed the s*** out of your rings and they're stuck...?

 

[joshoisasleep]

just put them back in and tested with the bar off... all tested fine. Maybe an electrical problem somewhere further up the line? I've just been told of a mechanic within walking distance so I'm going to go see if I can get a compression test...