I’d go XL if possible and then if not, SL. LTs can be overkill for most. However, I’m not sure about the rocks on west coast trails. If they’re sharp, LT might be the way to go.
So I think the Michelin Defender is the perfect all-terrain tire... (For most of us) (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter chriscosta416
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In order from lightest to toughest.
SL = Standard Load Passenger Tire
XL = Extra Load Passenger Tire
LT = Light Truck Tire
bloc
SILVER Star
@po boy The definitions don’t go far enough.
LT tires are “tougher”. Generally they have thicker more robust structure and harder rubber, and in the higher load rating classes (D, E, F even) can handle much more inflation pressure and therefore more weight up to their max speed rating, safely.
While most people will assume tougher is better, that extra structure does come with drawbacks. Not only can you run more pressure, you have to.. the thicker structure means there is more internal friction from rolling, so you need a “stiffer” tire for a given load on it to cut down on that friction and keep the internal tire temperatures in a safe range. If you ran a LT tire at SL or XL pressures you’d eventually damage the tire and get delamination or a blow out. That mandatory extra pressure, weight, and structure reduces ride quality. The increased internal and usually external friction from deeper tread means you’ll lose fuel efficiency.. sometimes a substantial amount.
Our rigs come with XL rated P-metric “car” tires.. and can quietly haul a lot of weight safely on them, while getting remarkably good mileage for what the rig is. People spending a lot of time in sharp rocks or hard trails can make the case for LT-metric construction, accepting the compromises that come with them.
But at the end of the day many, many people currently running LTs could easily run SL or XL tires and avoid those compromises.
Great explanation, thank you.
I decided to go with the Defender LTX M/S2 XL as it should handle 99% of the things I want to do offroad without driving me crazy on the highway. Thanks for everyone's input.
bloc
SILVER Star
I think you’ll like them.
One thing I missed in my post.. the required extra pressure of LTs applies even without extra load. So our stock tires run 33psi, per the book a similarly sized LT tire would require around 40psi under the same stock conditions.. just as an example.
But that won’t apply to the ones you are getting!
I got the Defender XLT M/S as that is what Costco had in stock in time for my trip. Since Michelin offers a 30 day guarantee I am going to see if I can swap them for the M/S 2 since the M/S are likely being phased out. Costco only lists the LT in my size so not sure they can get them in the XL. I do not know if you can swap at a different retialer than you purchased them from.
Went to Costco today and they were able to order the Defender XLT M/S 2 in the XL version and are going to swap them out at no additional cost. No questions asked. Should have an updated set in about a week.
I want to do the same thing when the go on sale the next time. Are you getting the stock size?
I bought slightly oversized KO2's from a Costco in NorCal years ago and they didn't have any problem selling and installing them. Recently I visited a Costco in the northeast, and after telling them I have non-stock size KO2's, they still refused to sell me the exact same type of tires, citing their policy against non-stock size due to odometer/speedometer discrepancy being >3% is against local law etc...
Is there something I can say to help persuade them to sell me the same KO2's? Or is this strictly a No in states having more strict traffic related regulations (due to snow etc.) in general?
Thanks!
I have 275/65R18 so very slightly larger. The rule at my Costco is if it rubs they won't install. Each store is different. LV store wouldn't install anything non stock for me.
My local store would not put an oversized tire on my Tundra that they had already put on. Showed the guy behind the counter the paperwork and he all but called my a liar. I even asked him "You mean to tell me that you are not going to put a tire on my truck that you have already put on?" He mumbled something and I walked out. The Costco in Kalispell was cool about it. Was first up there in 1978 and then for several weeks each summer from 1992 until 2017, mostly while Lyle was managing Kintla. Good times. Love that place.
I think it helps to be generally friendly with the person helping you and demonstrate that you’re knowledgable about the upsized tire you’re looking to purchase (load, speed, treadwear, etc). If they see you know your stuff they’ll be more likely to allow it. For reference I’m in the Los Angeles area.
I’ve called multiple Costco tire centers ahead of time and they’ll usually tell me over the phone if they’ll do what I’m asking. Try calling a few of them around you…even if it’s a bit further out it’s usually worth it. I always make an appointment and this past month they finished installing four tires on my wife’s RX in 45 minutes (!).
If all of your local Costcos don’t budge I’d say just go the Discount Tire route and have them price match when Costco is having one of their big tire sales. I’ve never shopped there, but even if you have to pay a little bit to extend the road hazard warranty to 5 years, you’ve basically got what Costco is offering.
My local Toyota dealer is aggressive in selling tires, they matched the lowest price I could find. They installed my 275/65r18 defenders…only slightly taller than stock. But I don’t think they would have pushed back if I wanted to go larger. I’m surprised Costco is being difficult about it.
My dealer sends coupons for cheap oil changes, and buying tires there means free five tire rotations with my 5k miles oil changes. So far I haven’t had service issues from the dealer that some on here have complained about.
My dealer sends coupons for cheap oil changes, and buying tires there means free five tire rotations with my 5k miles oil changes. So far I haven’t had service issues from the dealer that some on here have complained about.
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bloc
SILVER Star
It seems like a bad idea to me to install a tire that not every location of that vendor will warranty.
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dms
GOLD Star
what pressure are you guys running in your 285/60/18 defenders?
33. Same as stock tires. Same as driver’s door jam sticker.
dms
GOLD Star
thanks for the info. I am running them on my 2018 LX570 and the door jam numbers are for 20" wheels.
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Totally agree. It's why we use Discount Tire. There's one in the vicinity of the places we drive to.
I just utilized the buy 3 get a 4th for $1 at the local Toyota dealership. 1220 installed and balanced and an alignment. 275/65/18 Michelin Defender LTX M/S.
