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Slower with 33's

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by Dirty Toad, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. Dirty Toad

    Dirty Toad

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    I am considering re-gearing since we put 33's on. She is rather slugish up hills at 4th and 5th gear speeds. Was not like this with the stock tires.
    Is there a recomended gear set (maybe 410's) that would give me better acceleration and not ruin her gas milage?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Tinker

    Tinker

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    4.11s will give you the same ratio of engine speed to road speed as before.
     
  3. Texx

    Texx

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    You're gonna want 4.88, if you're going to that much trouble and expense, your tires are approx 20 per cent larger than stock, you'll want to make the same percentage in gearing increase.
     
  4. gulp3000

    gulp3000

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    4.88? 3.7 + 20% = 4.44

    The 5 spd has a lower 1st already, so 4.56 would be the lowest I would go if you see a lot of road time. 4.11s from an fj62 are a common match to 33's. Then again, with a 5th gear, 4.88s might work well.
     
  5. stinkyfj60

    stinkyfj60

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    I love 33s+4.56s... be cooler if I had overdrive for long flat long runs...
     
  6. SLOwag

    SLOwag

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    I debated the same issue. I knew I was going to re-gear when I went w/ 33's but I had to decide if I would ever go to 35's. The answer was no, expedition rig for now. My impressions w/ 33's 4.11's and a five speed on my local test hill (1.5 mile, 6% grade) that I used to compare isn't scientific but with stock tires and 3.73's it went up at 65mph in 4th gear, 33x10.50 with 3.73's and a 5 speed I had to gear back and forth between 3rd and 4th up the hill. With 4.11's, 33x10.50 and 5 speed I can maintain 65mph in 4th with a little bit of pedal still left to slowly accelerate if needed. I can maintain 5th gear over rolling hills with a head of steam.
    I'm still working through a few tanks of gas to see how fuel economy is affected. I did get my speedo closer to stock, 65mph = 68mph actual.
     
  7. cbmontgo

    cbmontgo SILVER Star

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    You guys are lucky...I usually have to downshift to third in the Hill Country when I have a 60-load of hunting and camping gear...she still has the stock 4-speed and gearing. Maybe one day I'll upgrade, but I have just had to learn to be patient and get there slowly.
     
  8. Texx

    Texx

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    Actually, 3.73/.8=4.66...close enuff!
     
  9. canyon62

    canyon62

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    Actually, actually...

    20% more than 3.73 = 3.73 * 1.2 = 4.48

    by your math:
    4.66 - 3.73 = .93
    .93/3.73 = .25
    or 25% more than 3.73
     
  10. magFJ60

    magFJ60

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    How do I tell what kind of gears are in my 60? I think the PO said something about regearing, but I'm not sure. Is there an easy way to figure this out?
     
  11. Dirty Toad

    Dirty Toad

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    OK, so let me get this straight. I think that I am going to go with 4.11's because we have a 5 speed and spend a lot of time on the freeway. Please feel free to correct me, but because we have the 5 speed which has a lower first gear than the 4 speed, then the 4.11's will be a good match for on and off road.

    Right?
     
  12. Kavik

    Kavik Supporting Vendor

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    4.88's w/ 33's and a 4-speed is too low for any freeway driving. It's very kick ass on the trail, but too many rpms at 60-65mph(3300- 3500rpm). Anything over 65-70 mph, and my 2F would come apart...

    I got 4.88's because I plan to run 35-37" tires...
     
  13. esh

    esh

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    First of all you have to realize it is a Land Cruiser and therefor you aren't going to get a whole lot more better acceleration or gas mileage. :) If you want that, get a lightweight car.

    What people are saying is that because you have the 5 speed, you can afford to go to a lower diff gearset because of the overdrive combination of tires and 5th gear. It will also help offroad because ultimately it will be lower (quite a bit in fact).

    First, did the truck come to you with a 5spd and what size tires did you get it with, and how did all that feel to you through the gears?

    Then, you need to figure out the numbers so you can turn "how it felt" into "how it will feel."

    To do this, you-

    figure out the change in tire size ratio, roughly the height of your old tires / height of new tires = tire overdrive factor (so if you had roughly stock 29s and your 33s are close to actually 33" true height, you would have 0.879 (88 percent overdrive effect))

    Then, put in the ratios for your 5speed. (and if you had a 4spd you should put those down too).

    (h55f) from http://www.birfield.com/modules.php?name=TLCFAQ&p=/~ramullen/FAQ/TEXT/08-01.html

    1st = 4.843
    2nd = 2.619
    3rd = 1.516
    4th = 1
    5th = 0.845

    Then your tcase low gear (split case, 2.276?) to look at offroad #s.

    Then your choice of gears-

    3.70
    4.11
    4.56
    4.88

    Now you can start playing and see what will feel like something else.. for example, if you first had a 4spd with 29s, your 4th gear would be-

    1(tires) x 1(tranny) x 1(high range tcase) x 3.7 = 3.7

    Ah, but now you've mucked with your tires and tranny-

    .879 (tires) x .845 (5th tranny) x 1 x 3.7 = 2.748

    to get back to around 3.7, or what it "felt" like stock

    4.11s become 3.05, 4.56s become 3.38, 4.88s become 3.62... so 4.88s in 5th gear will feel the most like 3.70s in 4th gear, a little higher which drops the rpms slightly and might give more power range to 4th gear.

    offroad-

    4.11s give a (4.11 x .879 x 4.843 x 2.276) ~ 39.8:1 low ratio, pretty decent!
    4.56s give 44:1
    4.88s give 47:1

    that's a noticeable difference in offroad feel between 40:1 and 47:1.

    It is all up to you and what you think you want for feel. Looks to me since you have a 5spd, the 4.88s would work better. Maybe 4.56 if you want lower highway RPMs.
     
  14. esh

    esh

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    The problem is he has a 5spd, which (in 5th gear) turns 33s effectively into 37s.

    4.88 x 29/37 x 1(a 4spd) = 3.82 (notice how close to 3.7 that is from the previous post)

    4.88 x 29/33 x .845 = 3.62, also close to 3.7 AND still lower than 3.82
     
  15. Dirty Toad

    Dirty Toad

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    eshelbyk, I must say thank you! A big THANK YOU!

    You made it very easy for me to see what it is that I need to do for what I want the vehicle to do. We spend a fair amount of time on the freeway as this vehicle is my daily driver (26 miles each way- not bad for los angeles), but once the weekend rolls around and I get off road I need it to have better torque than what it currently is. So 4.56's is for me. Seems like the perfect combo for my needs.

    Thanks for all your help guys! I am on the hunt for a resonable price for front and rear gears. Any tips on who had good prices (man-a-fre and sor are just down the street from me, but I think they might be a BIT over priced)?
     
  16. Kavik

    Kavik Supporting Vendor

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    Machinewave and/or Cruiseroutfitters will take care of you...
     
  17. Martin White

    Martin White

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    You can figure out what ratio you have by jacking the vehicle up and turning the driveshaft enough times to turn one of the wheels once. Make a mark on the tire and a mark on the floor. Once they line up after one turn, you're there. It's a lot easier with 2 people. If you have 4.11's you'll turn the shaft just over 4 times. 4.56 = just over 4 1/2 turns, 4.88's and you're close to 5 turns. It works pretty well!
     
  18. Mike S

    Mike S

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    Simple answer - drop in the thirds from an FJ-62. That will give you 4.11 gearing and get you righteous. Perfect combo with the 17% overdrive on the H55F.

    I keep telling people that 33's are too tall for the stock gears, but noooooooooo...

    M
     
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