Side slopes (1 Viewer)

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Francesco_from_Italy

Francesco_from_Italy

Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Threads
16
Messages
238
Location
Bologna, Italy
Website
www.fuoristrada.it
Hallo everybody, I need your help becouse I'm having some big troubles with my air shocked FJ.

The new setting works fine in almost every condition but has a problem with side slopes: the shocks seem to be too soft and in every side slope, even the smaller, the car is near to roll over like that:

aan.sized.jpg


As you can notice from the pic the ground gradient is not so heavy (every "normal" car wouldn't have any problem) but my Toy almost rolled over and didn't do it just becouse the frame was hold by the bumpstop.

Also on this forum someone told me that air shocks have this behaviour due to their softness, but I think that this is not normal.

Now, what can I do? Change the setting of the shocks? Build a sway bar (I don't want to do this)?
Or maybe the problem is that 2.0" that I run on the rear (in the front side I have2.5") are to thin for my car?

Please help me to work this problem out!! :doh:

Francesco
 
Francesco_from_Italy said:
Hallo everybody, I need your help becouse I'm having some big troubles with my air shocked FJ.

The new setting works fine in almost every condition but has a problem with side slopes: the shocks seem to be too soft and in every side slope, even the smaller, the car is near to roll over like that:

aan.sized.jpg


As you can notice from the pic the ground gradient is not so heavy (every "normal" car wouldn't have any problem) but my Toy almost rolled over and didn't do it just becouse the frame was hold by the bumpstop.

Also on this forum someone told me that air shocks have this behaviour due to their softness, but I think that this is not normal.

Now, what can I do? Change the setting of the shocks? Build a sway bar (I don't want to do this)?
Or maybe the problem is that 2.0" that I run on the rear (in the front side I have2.5") are to thin for my car?

Please help me to work this problem out!! :doh:

Francesco
Click to expand...
Howdy! Do you have only one air line that goes to both rear shocks? If so, then the air pressure can go back and forth, left to right, making the rig tip over more. If you use two separate air lines, one for each shock, that will fix the problem. I had the same problem on an old trailer I built to haul fire wood. It would lean way over on hard turns. After making two separate air lines, it worked very nice. Good Luck. John
 
inkpot said:
Howdy! Do you have only one air line that goes to both rear shocks? If so, then the air pressure can go back and forth, left to right, making the rig tip over more. If you use two separate air lines, one for each shock, that will fix the problem. I had the same problem on an old trailer I built to haul fire wood. It would lean way over on hard turns. After making two separate air lines, it worked very nice. Good Luck. John
Click to expand...

Each shock has a nitrogen reservoir on his own so the air lines are separate.:frown:
 
MOTERRA said:
the anti-rock (sway bar with disconnect basically) might limit travel...if the shocks can take more charge or can be adjusted i'd try that first before changing the setup.
Click to expand...

No, the antirock will not limit travel. It was designed specificaly not to limit travel.

Your problem is in Link design and the shocks that you are using. I am betting that it sucks around corners too..


An antirock will make it much more comfortable..
 
Mace said:
No, the antirock will not limit travel. It was designed specificaly not to limit travel.

Your problem is in Link design and the shocks that you are using. I am betting that it sucks around corners too..


An antirock will make it much more comfortable..
Click to expand...

You won! ;)
Last saturday I was in a competition and during a round I had to winch to avoid rolling over while turning right and uphill...

Any way, the shocks are charged to around 370 PSI (maximum pressure is 500) and the seller told me that the oil level is already set right.
Everything is possible, firts of all that the seller told me a lie, but I'm afraid that this behaviour is characteristical in this kind of shocks.

So, you think that a the antirock bar wouldn't limit shocks travel and meantime would avoid rolling over everytime I meet a side slope? That would be great...
Another thing: I could put it just on the rear or would be required on both axles?

Francesco
 
just curious Mace, what do you think is wrong with his link design? looks like he has decent triangulation, is it the angle of the links? too low of a roll axis?
 
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Most likely it is the roll axis causing most of his issues.

Francesco, did you ever run the numbers on your suspension?
 
Mace said:
Most likely it is the roll axis causing most of his issues.

Francesco, did you ever run the numbers on your suspension?
Click to expand...

You mean squat, anti-squat and all these things? I took some measurements for the rear axles and the squat was around 0°.
You really think that this can be the cause of my problems?

To me seems more an issue connected to the characteristics of air shocks; I mean, I'm quite sure that changing air shocks with coils or coilover the problem would disappear...

Anyway, you think that a antirock bar would be the right solution?

Francesco
 
antirock will help lots and not hinder articulation.

Squat/antisquat are just two things that describe how a suspension works.

The 4 link calculator is a handy thing..
 
Mace said:
antirock will help lots and not hinder articulation.

Squat/antisquat are just two things that describe how a suspension works.

The 4 link calculator is a handy thing..
Click to expand...

So, assuming that I prefere not to cut away all the links and bars I've done to draw a new suspension scheme, you think that an antirock bar could help me to work this problem out? Maybe toghether with a re-setting of air shocks oil and nitrogen level?

But let me ask a thing: I know that some othors guys of this forum ride air shocks on their FJs...I the one who is facing this problem???

Francesco
 
I have not seen anyone that actually runs air shocks on a 40. So I cant tell you what others that are running Air shocks problems are.

Air shocks in general have some odd quirks in a truck as heavy as a 40. By the time you add enough nitrogen to them they tend to want to unload. It is very common to run suck down winches in the front and rear to aleviate this problem.

Small changes to your suspension is not going to do a hell of a lot anyway. one of the downfalls with linking a full bodied/framed rig is that you are limited on where you can put the links..

Can you outboard the shocks a bit? Are the shocks leaning inwards?

The currie bar (or one like it) will help considerably..
 
i think mace is dead on, i would guess the link design has put the roll axis way high, combined with some quarks of the Air shocks.. Did you put you 4 link #'s into the 4 link calculator? New Version of my 4-link Analyzer & Request for Help - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

That photo look scary, and the hill not even that steep, if all else fails go back to leaf springs. my rig is working dam good on leafs! the only reason i would go 4 link in the rear at this point would be to get it to hook up better.
 
Francesco_from_Italy said:
But let me ask a thing: I know that some othors guys of this forum ride air shocks on their FJs...I the one who is facing this problem???

Francesco
Click to expand...

i know there is one other guy on the board, here is a photo he posted, and by what i see in the photo, he has the same issues as you!

IMG_2875.jpg


and the Thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner/158305-school-me-air-shocks.html

I think air shocks are cool on Light rigs, and Buggies. full bodied Cruisers are too heavy and tall.. :popcorn:
 
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I'm quite annoyed becouse the air shocks work great in almost every condition...except side slopes!
So to me would be so unpleasant change something in the suspension scheme or go back to leafs.

Mace, the shocks can't be moved more outboard than they are now and they work with a very thin angle (I think smoething like 5°), almost straight (this becouse I wanted to put them out of the frame).

My fear is that this is the behaviour of air shocks, that's it. Is not a problem of angles, linking, settings etc., they are just too soft.
Assuming that this is true, an antirock bar would be the best solution becouse would help me to work out the problem of side rolling over but at the same time would give to the axle the same flexibility that it has by now.

Francesco
 
Plug your numbers into the calculator, you might not be as far off from a better roll-axis as you think. Air shocks are going to unload and don't provide very good side-hill stability. Lowering the rig some will help, a Currie Anti-Rock will help, as could limiting straps, suck down winches, or changing your shock and link mounts. Read more on 4-links, it seems as if a few hours of intense cramming could get you 'in the know' to figure out where the problem is in your suspension.
 
Tapage said:
What about lowered the hole body GCC a bit and run limiting straps . ?
Click to expand...

I could lower the body to limit a little bit this behaiour but I don't want to put limit straps; I worked a lot to gain travel and flexibility and limit all that I did with straps would be a defeat! :crybaby:

Another thing: I like very much the antirock bar, simple and useful, but you thin that one - in the rear - would be enought or I need to bind both axles?

Francesco
 
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