Shop recommended I rebuild my frontend (1 Viewer)

[Ace4]

I just had a land cruiser specific shop replace my belts because they were squeaking and my power steering belt was undersized. I like to have them do some of the cheaper maintenance so that I can get a second opinion on upcoming maintenance needs while they are checking things out.

No surprise to me they suggested new u joints for my front driveline. That one is loose and has started to clunk and rattle at highway speeds. It's on my list of maintenance.

However, what I find strange is that they also recommended new u joints for the rear driveline and a rebuild of the front axle.

Last week I inspected fluids, greased everything up and inspected my u joints. I didn't detect movement in the rear driveline using a screw driver shaking things around.

As for the front axle, I had that fully rebuilt in 2020 using parts from cruiser outfitters when I swapped in 1993 locked axles front and rear. I haven't put more than 10k miles on it since.
It's possible I screwed up the rebuild, but I don't see any symptoms of needing a replacement.

I inspected my diff fluids last week too, the rear was a bit dirty which I understand might indicate a blown seal. However, the front diff fluid was clear. The inside of the knuckle looks fine to me. I got home and jacked up the vehicle and did the 6 / 12 and 3 / 9 shake and had I supposed there was a little bit of wiggle, but didn't seem excessive. I also don't hear any clicking. The birfields and axles are original and eventually I'd like to replace those, but I don't see how the bearings or seals need replacing this soon.
I called and asked how de diagnosed, but haven't heard back why he suggested the rebuild. Anything else I should look for?

In general I trust the shop, and they don't seem to be hurting for work, but my gut tells me they are just trying to upsell me.

 

[cruzinfj1]

What's the leak, drip, or overspray on the passenger side from?

Not sure what you're getting at here. You take it in to have someone else change belts for you, and shake it down "so that I can get a second opinion on upcoming maintenance needs", then feel they're trying to upsell you??? Why wouldn't they? Sounds like they did exactly what you asked them to do.

 

[Ace4]

I'm trying to get more concrete diagnosis if my frontend is bad and needs to be rebuilt or if the shop just recommend it be done because they could. They acted like it was really bad and needed to be addressed ASAP, but from what I've read and understand it doesn't seem necessary.

If my front axle is bad I would also like to understand what maintenance failures occured in less than 10k miles to cause new parts to fail that quickly so that I can not do that again.

The leak on the passenger side is motor oil. I replaced the oil pan gasket which stopped some of it, but I think I've still got some coming from the side cover.

The glob of grease on the driver's side is just from my grease gun when I was crawling under getting the zerks

 

[cruzinfj1]

And you want us to do that by two still pics?? Post some vids. Again, what is the drip, leak, or overspray from on the passenger side?

 

[Ace4]

I feel like I gave a pretty good description of the situation and how I checked if it needs work. Seems like the people around here could read that and point out what I'm doing wrong.

I can take a video, but I didn't when I was in the shop and don't know what to take a video of.
What do you think I should take a video of?

 

[Irish Reiver]

When was the last time your front axle was serviced? They do require some level of PM. I typically tear mine down every 30k miles and rebuild with new grease, seals etc. Some on here will do it sooner than. That and others later but I doubt that people wait until something breaks before committing to a rebuild.

 

[Ace4]

It was serviced in 2020, I've put about 10k miles on it since then, adding grease to the knuckles every now and then especially after water crossings

 

[Irish Reiver]

It's unlikely they need rebuilt after 10k miles but I would definitely have them torque up the 54mm nuts to eliminate that little bit of slack you could feel.

 

[alia176]

If your front and rear drive shafts are still the original ones, I would definitely replace those UJs. Diagnosing UJs is a difficult thing to do while the DSs are still attached to the vehicle, but an experienced individual might be able to notice some play.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I also think you may have oil leaking from the right side knuckle. You've got oil spatter all over the hub & suspension & tire on that side. That's not typical for an engine oil leak.
It suggests you may have a bad inner axle seal, which means birf soup / diff oil in the knuckle.

If you felt movement in the tire shaking 6-12 o'clock, you can almost bet the farm that your wheel bearings weren't torqued correctly. If so, they can definitely be too loose in 10k miles, or 2k miles.

Sharing the tire 3-9 oclock might indicate loose tie rod ends, but the steering has a small amount of play anyway, so this is harder to diagnose by wiggling tires.

i agree with the post above, it's really difficult to assess the uni joints with driveshaft in position.
If I'm inspecting them, I'll unbolt the driveshaft, and check the uni joints rotate felt and smoothly through full range of motion in all directions. If not, they are cooked. If the are loose, or notchy, they are cooked.
If you think they are still good, grease them until you have clean grease coming out around all 4 legs of the spidey.
If you replace them, spend the extra for OEM or Matsuba.

If you trust them, go back and have another chat, ask them for more info on what/why they think needs to be done.
Or find a new mechanic.

Or drive until the preventative maintenance plan takes effect*







*When lack of maintenance prevents you driving it, fix it.

 

[DIRTBIKEUSA]

I'm trying to get more concrete diagnosis if my frontend is bad and needs to be rebuilt or if the shop just recommend it be done because they could. They acted like it was really bad and needed to be addressed ASAP, but from what I've read and understand it doesn't seem necessary.

If my front axle is bad I would also like to understand what maintenance failures occured in less than 10k miles to cause new parts to fail that quickly so that I can not do that again.

The leak on the passenger side is motor oil. I replaced the oil pan gasket which stopped some of it, but I think I've still got some coming from the side cover.

The glob of grease on the driver's side is just from my grease gun when I was crawling under getting the zerks

Soapy water and pressure wash all the affected areas to pinpoint the leak.

 

[Ace4]

Thanks for the info y'all. I got a call back and the reason the frontend was suggested is because birfs are worn down and they just assumed I would need new bearings and everything else while they were in there.
I didn't really get an explanation as to how they could figure that out, but they told me they are original to the axle because it still has the pink / red color on the end of the shaft.
Ideally I'd like to wait until the bearings need a repack / replace then go in with a new birf and do it all at once instead of opening it up just to replace the birf. The risk there being the birf could blow up on me? I don't wheel hard with it, just gravel dirt roads for fishing and camping trips.
I think I'll wait keep my eye on it and tackle the frontend as a winter project and just address the UJs for now.

I have a 1993 front e-locker on it, I was just going to go OEM, but I was told that the early year locker axles had shorter splines than the later years so they are more prone to wear. I've got some searching to do. Also assuming I should do the inner axle at the same time.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

How do they conclude the birfs are worn without pulling them out and inspecting them?

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

How do they conclude the birfs are worn without pulling them out and inspecting them?

Im wondering this too (beyond just being old?).

 

[Ace4]

You guess is as good as mine. Couldn't talk to the mechanic, just heard second hand through the receptionist. It's a pretty reputable shop that specializes in land cruisers that I've seen mentioned here as a good shop for the area

 

[POPO AGIE]

You guess is as good as mine. Couldn't talk to the mechanic, just heard second hand through the receptionist. It's a pretty reputable shop that specializes in land cruisers that I've seen mentioned here as a good shop for the area

Is the shop near the St. Johns Bridge?

 

[Ace4]

Is the shop near the St. Johns Bridge?

It's pretty close to St John's bridge. It's not the shop that's in St johns near Willamette, I think that ones closed now. It's west side of the river. I'm sure you know the one.

 

[POPO AGIE]

I was up there working in the late 80s and early 90s as a Millwright/Welder for local contractors and worked a lot at OSMs. The shop I stumbled onto was on the east side of the Willamette near the bottom of the bridge and not very far from the little shop that sold clothing for Craftsmen and would not sell to teens if they didn't believe they were Craft. I don't even remember why we were there maybe someone told me about it.

They showed me a broken Birfield and I never seen one before, and it came out of a FJ40 that also had a broken transfer case housing. The owner of the FJ40 told us he had a SBC making 400 hp and it was prone to breaking things. He was breaking the transfer case on the street in 2wd,It may have been before the Orion transfer case because he was having one made or he was waiting for an Orion.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I think I'll wait keep my eye on it and tackle the frontend as a winter project and just address the UJs for now.

This sounds reasonable.

There's two ways birfs wear out.
1. The star and balls inside wear.
If this happens, they'll tend to click/ rattle when you are cornering, such as turn right at an intersection.
They can click for ages before total failure.
If they aren't clicking, the only way a mechanic would really know this is a problem for sure is opening them up.

2. The splines at the hub / drive flange wear away. Pre '94 were more prone to this.
If this has happened, you'll get a lot of driveline backlash, slop, clunking etc on acceleration and deceleration.
Often mistaken to be worn uni joints.
This is easily diagnosed by popping the dust cap off the hubs, and rotating wheels. Or, may be apparent just by rotating a raised wheel.
Is wear is bad, the splines can strip completely leaving you with no power getting to the ground.
If you replace the birfs, update to '94+ birfs, and drive flanges. If both are replaced together, they last longer, and there's no compatibility issues.

 

[DIRTBIKEUSA]

This sounds reasonable.

There's two ways birfs wear out.
1. The star and balls inside wear.
If this happens, they'll tend to click/ rattle when you are cornering, such as turn right at an intersection.
They can click for ages before total failure.
If they aren't clicking, the only way a mechanic would really know this is a problem for sure is opening them up.

2. The splines at the hub / drive flange wear away. Pre '94 were more prone to this.
If this has happened, you'll get a lot of driveline backlash, slop, clunking etc on acceleration and deceleration.
Often mistaken to be worn uni joints.
This is easily diagnosed by popping the dust cap off the hubs, and rotating wheels. Or, may be apparent just by rotating a raised wheel.
Is wear is bad, the splines can strip completely leaving you with no power getting to the ground.
If you replace the birfs, update to '94+ birfs, and drive flanges. If both are replaced together, they last longer, and there's no compatibility issues.

Thanks for this!