I’m looking to replace my stock shocks with 140K miles on them. I would prefer Bilsteins but I can’t seem to find them for an lx470. Is their any difference between the way the shocks are mounted on the lx verses the lc? Although, I can find a shock from KYB, does anyone have an opinion on these.? I did a search for past discussions about this and found part numbers for both KYB and Bilstein for the lc, are these part numbers interchangeable with the LX?
Shocks for lx
- Thread starter Nospell
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Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
If I'm not mistaken, the LX shocks are special hydraulic ones made by KYB but only sold through Toyota/Lexus.
hoser
SILVER Star
If you change the shocks to non AHC shocks, you will also need to change the coil springs and T-bars.
- Thread starter
- #4
So is the AHC system completely built into the shocks. Can I even change the shocks, and do I need to at 140k? Don’t laugh to hard, but I am a mechanical engineer and I don’t know how the system works. I thought about taking it apart like I used to do when I was 6, but I still have not perfected actually being able to put things back together. I have tried to figure it out visually, but the components that apply the force to move the vehicle up must be tucked away from plain sight. Does anyone have a drawing that explains the system?
hoser
SILVER Star
No, there are many more components in the AHC/AVS system than just the shocks. Most of the components are visible under the hood (PS) and next to the frame rails near the passenger doors. Sensors include speed, steering angle and height. I, too, don't fully understand the system. In the LC, the vehicle is completely suspended by the springs. In the LX, the springs share the load with the AHC system. So the T-bars and springs are physically smaller.Nospell said:
Unless there is a problem with your suspension, I see no reason to change the shocks. However, it is wise to flush the fluid every 60k miles. Guys have noticed a smoother ride after doing so. Search "Flush AHC" and you'll find out how to do it. It is easy and will only cost you 1-2 cans of fluid @ $22-28 each. Drive it to me and I'll do it for $300.;p
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
Nospell said:I checked with dealer, they want $350 to flush and fill AHC, is this normal. How hard is this to perform myself.
I'd say your dealer is ripping you off. My dealer charged 1 hr in labor ($90) plus 2 cans (4 liters) of AHC fluid at $30/can. Since it's 105F+ in my garage here in So. AZ, it's a lot easier to pay the $90 in labor, plus you get the car wash/vacuum and loaner car w/ free gas (was my Friday off, so I drove all over town running errands). Make sure they bleed the height actuator (cylinder-shaped thing under the left front rail) as well as the 4 globes. The service manager tried to give me this crap that the height actuator is full of air and not bleedable, but I pulled his bluff and stated that according to the FSM, it's bleedable, and then asked two techs, who happened to be standing 5 ft away. One tech said he only does the 4 globes the few times he's done it, while the other guy chimed in that they can do the height actuator. It takes more than 1 can to do all 5 bleeder plugs, they say. So if you have someone do it, make sure you specify that they do the 4 globes (damping bleeders) plus the height control bleeder!
This kind of info is one among a thousend other reasons why this forum is a jewel.
Oops, I meant "a thousand", of course.
Jim_Chow said:
Are you referring to the Height Control Accumulator?
That's the name given by the FSM to the only cylinder shaped AHC hydraulic thing on the left rail.
(Not to nitpick, but sometimes the Service Manager and others in Stealer Service Dept. will treat you as just another ignorant customer - e.g. lie to you etc. - if you use incorrect terminology.)
Yes, it should be bled too. Mine only discharged a very small amount of fluid when bled - but the first discharge was definitely full of bubbles etc., and that was on bleed date #2, meaning that the first time I bled only the corner Damping Force Control Actuators (globe thingies), the Height Control Accumulator did not get adequately bled.
The ride is definitely improved, after bleeding/flushing (twice...). Don't delay doing this bleed/flush more than the recommended 60k miles interval - I did, but I won't next time. The ride improvement takes a week or more to fully manifest, after bleeding/flushing. Interesting.
The ride quality degradation that gradually occurs over time with past-due deteriorated fluid is strange - the tiniest sharp bumps and road roughness are telegraphed directly into the vehicle system, rather than being absorbed and decoupled by the suspension. This also worsens a 45-55 mph cabin "boom" that is inherent to this vehicle (due to resonant frequencies in the overall system including the enclosed cabin air mass, I reckon). Now, all is better again after replacing the fluid & bleeding. Very nice to drive again.
On the "shocks" at the wheels: I expect that they are not "shocks" at all, not in the usual sense. More like combination hydraulic actuator cylinders / hydraulic pump pistons, without much built-in damping.
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what intervals should this be done at?
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
Nospell said:
Great! Tinkerer, yes, I'm referring to the height accumulator or whatever it's called (the cylindrical-shaped AHC component under the driver's side chassis rail). I think my dealer's price for AHC fluid is pretty reasonable ($30 for 2 liter can), considering what others have said their dealers were charging (over $50).
Dealer maintenance prices are inconsistent across the country. My dealer is a rip-off when it comes to 15K/30K/60K service. They do a bunch of stuff that's not specified in the FSM. For example, at 60K mi, they inspect the t-belt (yes, meaning they remove the radiator, pulleys, etc. just as if they were to change the t-belt) and water pump. They also replace the spark plugs and regap the valves (meaning removing the cams, re-shimming the valves...lots of unecessary labor to pad their pockets). They do not replace the AHC fluid at 60K mi eventhough it's specified in the book (and the service manager says they don't eventhough it says to). Oh, yeah, and they charge $2400 for their 60K service. For their 15K service (change cabin & engine air filters, engine oil & filter, drain & fill ATF, drain & fill t-case/diffs), they charge $750 for this and call it a "major service"!!! What a scam! My guess is most Lexus (and most car owners) owners don't have a clue and just pay.
OTOH, for a la carte stuff like replacing AHC fluid, they are pretty reasonable. So for my 60K service (currently at 52K mi), I'll do the coolant, engine oil, diff/t-case oil, rear brake pads, front wheel bearings, rotate tires, cabin/engine air filters, and have them do the ATF fluid (serp belt was done at 45K mi...AZ heat kills rubber).
Jim_Chow said:
I'm still shivering about the figures you quote. I knew labor in US is expensive compared to EU (as opposed to parts prices), but that is really frightening.
But I don`t understand why you are going to do a major part of the work yourself, and let the dealer do the ATF fluid change (or did you mean AHC?). Is is much more difficult than changing e.g. the diff/t-case oil? I was planning on changing every fluid myself, having already done the engine oil and filter, and rear diff.
Jim_Chow said:
I paid $22/can at the Toyota Stealer Parts Dept. (Lexus Stealer wanted $23/can.)
Jim_Chow said:
I wonder what it would be like in a world where Stealers did NOT try to rip people off as a default business model. Hmmm.... (Note to flaming Liars - er, lawyers: Here's your trigger to flame...)
