Builds Shipwreck (15 Viewers)

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That much swing in weight will be difficult to setup and have a decent ride at both extremes. The air shock combo won't work unless you have the means to adjust on the fly, which would require a very high pressure system (1000# plus). Even at that, the air charge sets rude height, but you actually add oil for heavier vehicles and loads. By simply adding air you may cause a pogo type effect. You could setup a dual rate coilover with each rate, but you would lose any progression that most people tune into them. Have you looked into an air bag setup? Not a helper type setup, but actual air springs? This would give you the adjustability that you need on the fly. They are similar in size to some coil springs and you could maintain a separate shock to control the ride.
 
The issue I have with air bags is they restrict travel. I've seen some set ups where the bag isn't fixed mounted to both ends, but I haven't been impressed with the engineering or the results... with that said, that isn't "no" it's simply, I haven't seen a design I think will work...

when I called... okay, can't remember name... anyway a builder about coil-overs, their take was to use dual rate, but rather than doing softer/harder rates, doing harder/even harder rates where the upper spring would be the overload. When I call back on Monday, I'll ask about using an air bump stop...

I have a nitrogen tank that I could carry to re-inflate the tires - it would have sufficient pressure to allow adjustment.
 
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You'll burn through nitrogen too quickly for use at filling tires. Co2 or scuba tanks are the compressed gas of choice for that. To properly charge shocks, they need to be fully extended, so again not practical to adjust on the fly or mid-run. Firm and firmer would ride horribly and negate your benefits over leaf springs (my opinion of course).

Back to air bags, if the correct springs are used I cannot possibly see how they would limit your travel compared with any other spring that you would actually use. Since you do not like pirate, here is a rig from this forum using them. I know that you can get varying diameter and length springs from Firestone. You would just need to find a catalog or knowledgable dealer that can set you up properly.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/forced-articulation-air-bag-system-question.453596/
 
hmmm.. there's not enough room to put an air bag and a coil spring next to each other on the axle. (that may force the coil-over with the heavy heavier spring set up)... I don't have to make a decision yet - so more research - thanks for the help, keep it coming

and on Pirate, I treat it like a library, you sneak past the perverts on the computer, get your reference, then leave.
 
brakes


and no, they're not going on top - apparently "fits 14 bolt" doesn't really mean "fits"... oh well, if it were easy.

this picture is "win"


why, you ask? because to check runout, I had to get the nut on the spindle - which required much fine work with a die grinder.... one small step towards completion
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
hmmm.. there's not enough room to put an air bag and a coil spring next to each other on the axle. (that may force the coil-over with the heavy heavier spring set up)... I don't have to make a decision yet - so more research - thanks for the help, keep it coming

and on Pirate, I treat it like a library, you sneak past the perverts on the computer, get your reference, then leave.
Click to expand...


Not coil AND air bag. Air bag only = air spring. Adjustable payload and ride height, just as you proposed with the air shocks, only much more practical and easier to accomplish.
 
I keep coming back to what I originally proposed (air spring) supplementing a coil spring. The biggest issue I have with air bags is they are a wear product that can fail on you with little or no warning. They do last a long time, the first set of air-rides I put on a car are still, now nearly 15 years later, working great - but there's also the "how did you blow it up bags?" on a 93 chevy 4x4 (overloads) that make me reluctant to use them as the sole source of support for a 4x4. Yes, you can get out of the woods with a cleverly crafted log spring (don't ask)...

it isn't no, and I've even considered a roll-your-own variety of encasing a air bag in overlapping aluminum tubes (to protect from debris and heat)... but, again, space is limited.... here's a picture


anyway, I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything - most of this is thinking out loud
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
I keep coming back to what I originally proposed (air spring) supplementing a coil spring. The biggest issue I have with air bags is they are a wear product that can fail on you with little or no warning. They do last a long time, the first set of air-rides I put on a car are still, now nearly 15 years later, working great - but there's also the "how did you blow it up bags?" on a 93 chevy 4x4 (overloads) that make me reluctant to use them as the sole source of support for a 4x4. Yes, you can get out of the woods with a cleverly crafted log spring (don't ask)...

it isn't no, and I've even considered a roll-your-own variety of encasing a air bag in overlapping aluminum tubes (to protect from debris and heat)... but, again, space is limited.... here's a picture


anyway, I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything - most of this is thinking out loud
Click to expand...


Perhaps an air strut is more along the lines of what you would like? The problem you will run into trying to run air anything will be load capacity vs size. You need surface area to carry the weight that you say you are wanting to carry. A 2.5" air shock is about the largest that you will find and are only recommended for 1100-1200 lbs. You will be much closer to that rating unloaded than loaded. I'm not trying to twist your arm one way or the other, just pointing out alternatives that you may have missed or dismiss prematurely. I've had experience setting up and tuning both coil overs and air shocks and I feel neither are the "best" option for what you say you need.

http://downsouthmotorsports.com/i-1558761-fox-2-5-factory-series-air-shock-nitrogen.html

By air struts, I am referring to something like what is in this thread, not the ORI struts

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/212679-air-rides-new-ride.html
 
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After weighing all the options, I went with Superlift 560 and 562 progressive coil springs. I have a newfound respect for the poor bloke that has to figure out what spring rate and how to satisfy the diverse needs of a vehicle... is it the right choice? probably not, but it will get the rig off the lift and provide a good start point to dial this in when it's done.
The springs are for a 4" lift on a JK... as I said before, I don't hate Jeeps - I think they are adequate parts cars... of course, if these don't work I'll simply put them on my wife's JK.
 
Why not air bags? I can weld a coil spring back together on the trail (I am putting an inverter/inverter welder onboard), I can't weld rubber back together... though all this talk about air bags has given food for thought and perhaps someone else following along will decide it's the right choice for them.

Why not coil overs... cost/benefit. I won't save a lot going with this set up ($250 plus spring mounts, and good, reservoir shocks), but I do have the space to package a full size spring - and one thing we didn't talk about about longevity - smaller diameter and smaller wire is not as robust as a full size coil spring.
 
back to my main project - I bought a $500 S-10 pickup that needed a title, head gasket, de-smoking the interior, and a front end... got it running (leaking intake gasket), fixed the transmission, removed the sheet metal, and I'm stopped until parts come... so back to this.



anyway, enough of that boring stuff...

I bought a "stock" radiator so that I could fit an oil cooler next to the radiator


of course, it doesn't fit the same stock shell, so fabrication will occur
but I'll still run a stock, clutch fan so that it stays nice and cool


I also finally got the springs, and hopefully, I'll have the front end this weekend... but I've heard this before.... my goal, though, is to button up the back so I can get the axle shafts ordered and have it suspended on the springs... we'll see, it's finally snowing in the mountains, so I may say bag it and go wheel in the snow.
 
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