seperating the new Cruiser

[Pitbull]

In Australia the Forerunner is called the Landcruiser Prado http://www.toyota.com.au/showroom

The top of the line LC Prado comes with all of the goodies you get on the Forerunner SR5 V-8 4x4 but they don't offer the V-8 engine they offer the turbo diesel, it also won 4x4 of the year in Aus. Just think how many more forerunners Toyota would sell if the named the Forerunner the Landcrusier 90 and then the present LC would be named the Landcruiser 100. Same engines, transmissions and drivetrain just different size and luxury items. Wonder why they did not do that when they introduced the 4th generation forerunner?

 

[uzj100]

THe LC does need to seperate itself. I drive a '99 100 and will replace it with a '03 or '04 100 in about 5 years. At which point I hope to add a supercharger, lift and front and rear arb lockers. I would not buy a 4runner because it is smaller than the 100 and I have 2 children and a dog. Basically every person I know drives a suburban, tahoe or expedition and they do not understand the appeal of a smaller LC. I always go with reliability, build quality and interior materials. Please go back to the stealership and park the 4runner and 100 side by side and see for yourself. I only come up with interior materials however the 4runner's interior feels like a kia's interior compared to the 100. This is not $30k difference and hopefully everyone knows you can buy an '04 LC for like $54k loaded out the door.

I would like to see an '05 Cruiser with the 5.8 liter yota v8 (proposed new engine) with about 360 hp and front and rear diff locks and that should do it. I would not look anywhere else.

Also, I would like to see a new reality show where they take pickup trucks/suv's off the lot, change the tires only (mt's) and let them battle it out. Use wheelbase as the measurement, not price, not size, just wheelbase and let them battle it out, then use price, then go all out and do the final episode where size does not matter. I think the LC would do very well for it self. Compare features, comfort, ease of onroad and offroad, etc. The G500 would kick ass too. It is a funny thing that the G500 and 100 series have the exact same wheelbase, 112.2 inches.

I also want to know what pieces are shared between lc, 4runner, seqioua and tundra. Axles, transfer cases, tranny, engine, etc. I would like to see a grid chart.

uzj100

 

[ebod]

I beg to differ. (i) I think reducing margins to increase volume can, and often is, a viable business decision. (ii) More importantly, I think adding features to a prestige product (i.e., the land cruiser) can substantially improve sales of other products that benefit from their association with the prestige product (e.g., sequoias and 4runners). Even if you can't maintain your margins with the improved features, you can come out ahead due to (i) and/or (ii) above.

 

[uzj100]

Good point, a prestige product brings folks into the dealership. Right now Toyota offers no new vehicles I would personally be interested in buying. If there was a 360 hp LC with locking diffs sitting over there, I would probably stop in once a week and think about a way to get one vs today, I see no need to trade the 100 for anything else, including a suburban, tahoe, expedition or 4runner.

I would consider a G500 if it was $40k new and reliable or a 360 hp LC with locking diffs for $50k. I would still wait a year or two and purchase a used one because of new vehicle depreciation.

uzj100

 

[ryanjl]

[quote author=fzj link=board=2;threadid=13469;start=msg125228#msg125228 date=1079984958]
I was not the one who mentioned that, but I think is what he was saying is that with the same basic drivetrain, but a arguably better front suspension(coils over torsion bars) the 4runner may be better in some situations than the Cruiser......
[/quote]

God, I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this thread, but......

Your incessant need to bring up this point only serves to highlight your ignorance. Tortion bars, while not as good as a live axle, are better for most offroad applications than a coil-over IFS setup like the 4Skinner / Sequoia utilize. Better wheel travel to begin with.

Secondly, and this isn't directed just at you, but I have no idea where you guys are getting the idea that the Land Cruiser's sales are on the decline. If you take into account both Land Cruiser and LX470 sales, numbers have actually remained level or have actually increased over the years. Keep in mind, Toyota never really sold more than 20,000 or so Land Cruisers per year in the mid 90's. What is interesting, if you want to get technical, is that the $10K more LX470 sells about 3 times as many units as the Land Cruiser, which kinda blows your whole theory to s***. This is especially remarkable when you take into account the fact that while Toyota has not, many other high-end SUV manufacturers (Chevy, Caddy, Ford, Lincoln) have offered 0% financing for much of the last two years.

Back to your Cruiser/4Runner argument. So, if I were to understand you right, you would think that a 2002 Z28 was every bit as good as a 2002 Corvette. Same engine and all. Or a 2004 Beetle is every bit as good as a 2004 Audi TT. Same platform and all. So on. So forth.

But when you really get down to it, arguments like you are making really just register a big fat "0" for anyone with a bit of sense on the ol....

 

[mabrodis]

I think some people miss the objective of the Land Cruiser though (maybe me too, as I'm not a Toyota insider). I think the Cruiser has developed a reputation of being a solid vehicle, that is Toyota's pride and joy, hardly anyone would disagree with that. However, Toyota does not want the Cruiser to be on every street, they do not want it to be like the Explorer which damn near every family has. There is a prestige to a Cruiser that is more so that the money involved. Toyota has the 4-runner and Sequoia for the 'mass market', to compete with the Explorer, Grand Cherokee, and so on. Then Toyota makes a nicer, more refined, more stately vehicle, the Land Cruiser. It's smaller than the Sequoia, nicer than anything else they sell. I think it's rather funny because it's kinda saying that they don't need to make it huge for people to want it, they can make it average size and people will still pick it over larger vehicles. To have a Cruiser is a statement, that you know quality and recognize a good quality design.

We all are obviously biased towards Toyota, or we wouldn't be on this forum. However my sister is not, she couldn't care less what she drives, she was looking at a new Explorer, good fairly solid vehicle, was going to be about $40K. After 15+ attempts I finally got her to go testdrive a used Cruiser (Cleveland, OH, i.e. Ford/Chevy land), '99 to be exact (with rear locker, not that she would care), she couldn't believe the difference. The Explorer was not a bad vehicle, just what you'd expect, but the Cruiser was quieter, smoother, more comfortable, and way less money, even though it was used it was still more solid and better driving than the new Explorer. They bought it and then 6 months later bought another '99 (rear locker also!!), she is still baffled why the Cruiser is never talked about by the press or hardly anyone. They love their two and will gladly put theirs up against any other new vehicle on the market, for handling, acceleration, comfort, luxury, etc.

I think Toyota has done good with the Cruiser, it's out there, but not everyone has them, although here in Colorado I see a ton of them, which is cool. It's still a prestige thing to have one, they aren't cheap, but I see more LX470's that are new on the roads than I do new Cruisers, and LX470s start at $64K, but if you ask the people who buy them new, they say they are definetly worth the money and usually say it's the best vehicle they have ever owned, so Toyota/Lexus must be doing something right.

Just my $0.00 worth...maybe less...

 

[uzj100]

Well said.

uzj100

 

[landtank]

awesome thinking going on here. Drop the prices of new cruisers so all previous owners can take one in the shorts in lost resale value. Yup sure fire way to gain customer loyalty. That logic might work well for the ice cream stand you work at but not an international automotive company.

 

[ebod]

Landtank,

By your logic, Toyota should not improve performance, add new features or otherwise improve the LC. All of those actions would decrease the resale value of existing cruisers. While keeping resale values up is a point to consider, it ought not drive any product development or pricing decision. Also, as someone pointed out above, most people on this board bought/buy their cruisers used. I think Toyota should focus on the forrest (i.e., getting people to buy vehicles from them/their dealers) and not the trees (i.e., keeping re-sale prices up for people who are hard-core users, but non-core customers). In fact, half of us--those who are looking to buy, as opposed to sell, used cruisers--would be happy if Toyota did something to bring used vehicle prices down.

 

[landtank]

[quote author=ebod link=board=2;threadid=13469;start=msg126085#msg126085 date=1080093789]
By your logic, Toyota should not improve performance, add new features or otherwise improve the LC. [/quote]

Put some glasses on there chief, I clearly wrote "Drop the prices". I wrote nothing about not improving the vehicle. Improving the vehicle is how you maintain the vehicles pricing structure.

 

[Sammy Jenkins]

Woh, Woh, Woh, LizardKing100, either I'm sick out of my mind, or are you using "BJ-fest" as I think you are... Hopefully I'm wrong. I'm sensing too much hatred and dislike in this thread about how Toyota is running their LC line. Well all I have to say is, if you don't like it, don't buy it. And if you don't like it and you buy it plus your b1tching about it, we (or at least myself) don't want to hear it. Peace,

- Sammy J

 

[ginericLC]

Look at the VINs on the new 4Runner and the Land Cruiser. That J costs money in import duties. And to me the J makes a difference. When I was buying Honda I had a choice between a green one and a blue one. I chose the blue one solely based on having a J in the VIN. It is the same with VW, getting one from Germany or getting one from Mexico. Supposedly they are the same cars, but in reality they aren't. Build quality varies from one plant to the next, I think the J factory has better build quality. Maybe it doesn't? But somebody is going to have to produce some hard evidence for me to believe it doesn't.

 

[Pitbull]

I agree with Sammy, what's up with all the angry posts??? I would love to get all the tech. information on all of the Toyota SUV models. Info on the structure of each model and also on all of the componets that make them up. What parts are used on each model and shared between models and also where each model is made. I agree that the ones made in Japan, like my 80 and the 100 and the new Forerunner all seem to be made better. It does not seem like this information is available, or atleast I've never been able to find it anywhere in one place.

 

[fzj]

I also agree, there have been way too many angry posts, and if you read through this thread and the one located in chit chat you will see that one person in general has avoided giving any facts, and just resorted to personal attacks, that person is lizardking100.

 

[fzj]

someone has to have accesss to the information we are looking for, maybe a Toyota tech or parts guy would know!

 

[thorvald]

[quote author=lizardking100 link=board=2;threadid=13469;start=msg125829#msg125829 date=1080069275]

What are we really talking about? I think it's obvious to all those who own "less than perfect vehicles" that this is just an ownership pride thread. The title of this thread should read:

BJ-fest 2004
open to all 80 owners

[/quote]

umm, kind of going out on a limb attacking 80 owners in general arent we?
in my book any landcruiser produced by araco is worthy of the name, be it 100, 80, 70, 60, 55, 40, etc. etc.

dont know how sterotyping is going to help any point your trying to make

 

[tuesdays crew]

wow that Lizardking100 is flaring like a pack of hemroids, he looks kinda like Bruce Lee too me, maybe he should actualy look at the facts!

 

[Pitbull]

I know I've been talking up the "new" Forerunner, because it has the engine,transmission and transfercase of the 04 LC. But a gym buddy of mine that sells highline vehicles just got a 2000 LX470 Black with 46K miles in and I'm going to go check it out. Think I can pick it up for around $33K but it depends on what he will give me for my 80 series. I know I'm easy when it comes to a pretty face, soft leather, and wood trim.

 

[mabrodis]

[quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=13469;start=msg126347#msg126347 date=1080144391]
I know I've been talking up the "new" Forerunner, because it has the engine,transmission and transfercase of the 04 LC. But a gym buddy of mine that sells highline vehicles just got a 2000 LX470 Black with 46K miles in and I'm going to go check it out. Think I can pick it up for around $33K but it depends on what he will give me for my 80 series. I know I'm easy when it comes to a pretty face, soft leather, and wood trim.
[/quote]
Definetly go check it out, those are REALLY nice vehicles. I think all LX470s have the air suspension, it goes up and down like 4" or something, a friend of mine just bought one to carry around his wheel-chair confined son, drop it down and he can pull himself in, very good for them. That's cool you could get it for $33K, I haven't priced them recently, but compare that to what new vehicle you could get for $33K, you won't believe what a $33K new vehicle is like compared to the LX470...no comparison. So buy it, put a lift on it, 35" tires and wheel it!!

 

[Pitbull]

I checked out the Black 2000 LX470 with 46K miles, nice ride and I can pick it up for $33K, he also has a white 2000 LX470 with 60K miles coming in. Said it would cost me less, but that black looks real good. Then I went back by the Toyota dealership and looked at the Forerunners again. I almost started to laugh since I did this same thing back in 1998 when I bought my 95 LC with 30 something thousand miles on it and at that time I was looking at the new forerunners for around the same money and here I was again doing the same thing. The only difference I see this time is that you now can get the same V-8 engine, 5 speed transmission and the transfer case in the forerunner. Also the LX470 is real real real nice. I mean this thing is so nice that if the wife gets mad at me it will be a nice place to sleep Now I have to be real nice to the wife and get her to let me trade. What a pain in the ass