school me on 4 door 70s

[Radd Cruisers]

thanks for clearing that up for me guys.
i know this would be a bit biased since im in a 70 tech section but honestly how does the HZJ77HV compare with a HDJ81VX or how about HJ61VX?
-off road capability
-D.D. comfort
-reliability (i know its a toyota but im pretty sure some has flaws)
-parts availability in N. America
-after market support
-or which one is just simply more fun than the other

Given that they all have decent tires and suspension improvements...

HJ61 - 12HT is generally too throttle sensitive for rock crawling or slow fourwheeling, fabulous on the highway, ride and comfort are good. Engine has a very nice sound to it. Great pull and top end power. Excellent fuel economy if set up correctly. The fully dressed VX is a wonderful highway machine with great off-road ability (but that sensitive throttle).

HZJ77 - 1HZ - Lots of low end torque - can pull a barn over sideways at idle. Smooth engine, but lacks a little on the highway (top end), comfortable, a little less roomy than the 60 series. Acceptable fuel economy. Really takes to a turbo nicely. I like both the auto and 5 speed with this engine (given that an Extreme valve body is installed). The 5 speed feels very short geared with so much low end torque available and the 4.11s in the diffs and stock sized tires. Larger that stock tires are pretty much needed (eg: 255 x 85 R16).

HDJ81 - lots of power, a little throttle sensitive when crawling, nice on the highway, smooth, generally quite quiet. Big and bulky, lots of bling doo-dads that like to go haywire over time. Acceptable fuel economy, and the power is really nice. Full time 4WD is a mixed blessing/curse - can be made into part-time or available as part time (rare) with the 5 speed (also relatively rare). I'd have one of these in part-time 4wd with a 5 speed.

They are all reliable, but the HJ6* has 9.5" diffs at both ends. 60 series has cable lockers (I like these the best). HZJ77 can have a full sized diff swapped in by using an older 70 housing to get rid of the (not problematic) high pinion. 70 Series E-Hubs are kind of cool, but only about 50% of them seem to work at any given time (hub swap or hub/spindle swap to manuals may be worth considering).

Aftermarket support is decent right across the spectrum.

Parts are not hard to get for any model listed here, with a few exceptions for less common bits.

I doubt there are too many people on this forum who have driven all three models... let alone in one day. They all do different things and have different pluses and minuses. Personally, I am quite partial to the 60 and 70 series. I like the 80 series well enough, but it's not one I'd be in a hurry to get.

For an overland trip, I'd choose the HZJ77 or an HJ6*, then an 80 series but that's just my bias.

~John
(I own a BJ42, BJ74, HJ60, HJ61, HZJ73s, and an HZJ77)

 

[Ratpuke]

he hasn't had a drive with something with a 1hz in it.

Funny. I prefer the 13BT over the HZ. Time (and a T/I) will tell whether that changes!

 

[ForealBoreal]

thanks for clearing that up for me guys.
i know this would be a bit biased since im in a 70 tech section but honestly how does the HZJ77HV compare with a HDJ81VX or how about HJ61VX?
-off road capability
-D.D. comfort
-reliability (i know its a toyota but im pretty sure some has flaws)
-parts availability in N. America
-after market support
-or which one is just simply more fun than the other

Given that they all have decent tires and suspension improvements...

HJ61 - 12HT is generally too throttle sensitive for rock crawling or slow fourwheeling, fabulous on the highway, ride and comfort are good. Engine has a very nice sound to it. Great pull and top end power. Excellent fuel economy if set up correctly. The fully dressed VX is a wonderful highway machine with great off-road ability (but that sensitive throttle).

HZJ77 - 1HZ - Lots of low end torque - can pull a barn over sideways at idle. Smooth engine, but lacks a little on the highway (top end), comfortable, a little less roomy than the 60 series. Acceptable fuel economy. Really takes to a turbo nicely. I like both the auto and 5 speed with this engine (given that an Extreme valve body is installed). The 5 speed feels very short geared with so much low end torque available and the 4.11s in the diffs and stock sized tires. Larger that stock tires are pretty much needed (eg: 255 x 85 R16).

HDJ81 - lots of power, a little throttle sensitive when crawling, nice on the highway, smooth, generally quite quiet. Big and bulky, lots of bling doo-dads that like to go haywire over time. Acceptable fuel economy, and the power is really nice. Full time 4WD is a mixed blessing/curse - can be made into part-time or available as part time (rare) with the 5 speed (also relatively rare). I'd have one of these in part-time 4wd with a 5 speed.

They are all reliable, but the HJ6* has 9.5" diffs at both ends. 60 series has cable lockers (I like these the best). HZJ77 can have a full sized diff swapped in by using an older 70 housing to get rid of the (not problematic) high pinion. 70 Series E-Hubs are kind of cool, but only about 50% of them seem to work at any given time (hub swap or hub/spindle swap to manuals may be worth considering).

Aftermarket support is decent right across the spectrum.

Parts are not hard to get for any model listed here, with a few exceptions for less common bits.

I doubt there are too many people on this forum who have driven all three models... let alone in one day. They all do different things and have different pluses and minuses. Personally, I am quite partial to the 60 and 70 series. I like the 80 series well enough, but it's not one I'd be in a hurry to get.

For an overland trip, I'd choose the HZJ77 or an HJ6*, then an 80 series but that's just my bias.

~John
(I own a BJ42, BJ74, HJ60, HJ61, HZJ73s, and an HZJ77)

HJ61: I have a family member who owns a HJ61. It is a slick truck, 5 speed, Cable locked, factory pto. The truck is refered to as the war wagon. I haven't worked on a 12H-T but it seems like a SWEET engine. It sounds like a Cummins and has a bunch of low end torque. This truck would be an awesome expedition platform.

HZJ7*: I am currently on the hunt for a 77 once my 81 sells. My dad recently changed up his BJ70 for something a bit more modern and went with a HZJ73. I love the simplicity of the 1HZ. Its a smooth sounding engine with heaps of torque and highway power comparing to the bj70. He was a bit sceptical not know about the engine but I assured him from my research that it would be worth his while. Hes really happy with it. The 5 speed feels very short geared with so much low end torque available and the 4.11s in the diffs and stock sized tires. Larger that stock tires are pretty much needed like John said. Hes currently running 235 85s and it rides pretty smooth. Hes needs to put an OME system in it then I think he will love it 100x more. He really really lucked out getting a Locked 5 speed model because locked 5 speed 70s are very hard to come by in good shape with low kms. I love the 70 series if you don't already know.

HDJ81 - lots of power, nice on the highway, smooth, generally quite but they sound great with a bigger exhaust. Acceptable fuel economy, and the power is really nice. Really capable truck if you like the luxuary side of things. I have no complaints about mine and I am a bit reluctant to sell it because I lucked out with this truck and got everything that I wanted. I am just a sucker wanting a 70 series....

It really depends on what your after. You can't go wrong with any of them. You will have a really hard time finding finding a clean 60 especially with low kms and cable lockers. You will have a harder time I think finding a clean, low km, locked 77 and you will have an easier time finding an 81 because they appeal to 90 percent of people because they look modern.

Really depends on what your after.
70 series > 80 series > 60 series*

(*)=the 80 and the 60 can be switched in the case of an HJ61 5 speed, cable locked, PTO'd in a very clean shape with low kms

 

[Devils Paw 80]

HZJ77 - 1HZ - Lots of low end torque - can pull a barn over sideways at idle. Smooth engine, but lacks a little on the highway (top end), comfortable, a little less roomy than the 60 series...

I wouldn't have expected they'd have less room than a 60. Interesting comparison you've offered. Does the 77 have manual hubs? The full time 4wd of the 80 series doesn't appeal to me either.
Missing from your list is the new 8 cylinder turbo diesel 70.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

The 77 can come with either manual or electric hubs depending on the spec. From what I can tell, most LXs have manuals and ZXs have electrics, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

We won't see Toyota's V8 diesel offerings any time soon. In general, I like things to be a little more simple and old-school - electronically controlled engines are pretty nice in some ways, but not what I want when far out in the boonies.

~John

 

[crushers]

well, John and i are pretty close on descriptions.
i feel the 77 actually is a bit bigger than the 6* series inside but i never measured it.
as a whole the HJ61 is a bullet proof rig, the auto is weak. the 5 speed has a throttle issue that is easily compensated for. the auto has a better O/D ratio for highway driving.
a HJ60 with turbo added and 5 speed is about as tough and as enjoyable a rig as you will find.
(BTW, there is a guy in Calgary that has a HZJ60 with turbo and intercooler for sale, wicked ride)
the HDJ81, good rig, comfortable mall buggie, quiet, decent on fuel easily lifted. full time front end leads to repair bills that can be $$$$$. the reverse pinion front seems to wear easily leading to a noisy front diff. MUCH smaller inside than the 60 ot the 77. not my choice at all, i was excited to get my first one but the excitment wore off quick.
the HZJ77 is the best of the bunch, IMNSHO, especially if you have the elec lockers. the open front diff is weak and it is the actual center unit housing that has the design flaw. the elec locker takes care of that. the engine LOVES to be turbo'd and those that have not turbo'd your 1HZ are realy missing out on this engines potential. H55F tranny, full size rear diff. it rides very nice, quiet, comfortable, full meal deal on wheels.
the PZJ77 is the budget buyers 77 series. i love the PZ, it is a smooth engine with R151 tranny and small frotn diff. the interior is more spartan than its big brother but sells for less as well. turbo and intercooler and ... well ... unless you are using it to tow you will be very satisfied.
the KZ, LJ are not worth the issues that come with them. the 78 series has a great tranny, suspesion, interior, 4.9 diffs, quiet cushy interior, sunroofs, flip out rear windows seating for the whole clan.
(i have a PZJ78 for sale if anyone is interested, time to move on to another project)
(it isn't a 4 door but the troopie is a desirable rig as well for that utilitarian ride, oicture a HUGE tin can that you are sitting in. N O I S Y but lots of room)

owned all: FJ75, PZJ75, HZJ75, HZJ77, PZJ77, BJ74, BJ70, FJ40, FJ45, HDJ81, FZJ80, LJ78, HZJ75 troopie... basicly anything that was available i have owned and wheeled it except KZJ models (due to "i wasted enough time and money on the LJ and don't need another fawking money pit") and the Mega Cruiser.
Cruiser addiction is a VERY expensive disease that is incurable. Once infected it is best to leave the individual in the garage mumbling incoherently as they throw money at the steel idol.

 

[Clint79]

don't Post 1990 all 7x series cruiseres run a smaller front diff than the rear? are you saying the pzj 77 run a even smaller front diff? ..smaller than a hzj77 front diff? . 85-89 the front and rear diffs are interchangable ?

 

[crushers]

nah, the PZ has the same size as all the others after 90...
full sized diffs can be swapped front and rear.

 

[crushers]

it is a 91 or 92, i would have to go look at the registration.
the PZ engine came out of a 1991 PZJ70 with 80K on it.
the tranny is 1 year old ($3400).
there is a Dobbinson lift installed.
a aftermarket alloy front bumper. no winch)
12V system
sunroof, elec this and that, suspension seats (no 3rd row seats, previous owner removed them)
turbo, intercooled. the truck moves quickly.
if it was me i would remove the 4 speed tranny and install the 5 speed, the 4.9 gearing is too low and you need 5th for anything over 90 k/h (or taller tires)
it has 2.5" exhaust

i have a roof rack for it and a rear elec locker but neither are installed yet.

i got it painted and the old fart used the wrong color so i lost interest in the build. the interest was begining to wain before that so...
i can use it as a winter beater
the wife can use it as a wheeling truck
or i sell it.
it doesn't really matter to me.

here is the build thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/327429-pzj78-truck-build.html
completed enough for the road: (it is the one with the white front clip)
https://forum.ih8mud.com/ca-upper-canada-land-cruisers/332873-day-run-nov-28-a.html
it is now painted the wrong grey and silver. looks fine but just not what i wanted. the old guy gave me a good deal on the labor and the color was my mistake. turns out that the color code has two shades of grey. ooops.

anywho, it rocks.
of course i could cut the back off and do the 4 door pickup with it.

 

[CYRUS]

They are all reliable, but the HJ6* has 9.5" diffs at both ends. 60 series has cable lockers (I like these the best). HZJ77 can have a full sized diff swapped in by using an older 70 housing to get rid of the (not problematic) high pinion. 70 Series E-Hubs are kind of cool, but only about 50% of them seem to work at any given time (hub swap or hub/spindle swap to manuals may be worth considering).

so if the HJ6*s came with 9.5" diffs front and back what does the 80/81 and the HZJ77 have then?
do gasser 60s share thesame axles as their deisel counter parts?

 

[cicak]

Something like this, not sure if it is correct though...

HZJ = 1HZ 4.2 litre 6 cylinder diesel engine
PZJ = 1PZ 3.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel engine
KZJ = 1KZ 3.0 litre 4 cylinder diesel engine
LJ = 2L 2.4 litre 4 cylinder diesel engine

LJ-78 is Light Duty Land Cruiser, with coils all round, others models above are Heavy Duty with leaf springs (newer Heavy Duty have front coils).

HZJ = 1HZ 4.2 litre 6 cylinder diesel engine
PZJ = 1PZ 3.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel engine
KZJ = 1KZ 3.0 litre 4 cylinder diesel engine
LJ = 2L 2.4 litre 4 cylinder diesel engine and 2.4 22R petrol (LJ77) also same as LJ78.

There are also differences in DIFFS for Petrol and Diesels for LJ77/78 series with some OPEN DIFFS (91-94 I believe) , other Rear LSD and front open and others E-lockers all round and some are LSD rear and you cannot put Locker in front and some hihgh mount and low mount pinions etc. Damn its confusing at times.

My BJ75 now has 60 Series Lockers and they slipped straight in and we used AIR to replace the CABLE activation.

 

[cicak]

so if the HJ6*s came with 9.5" diffs front and back what does the 80/81 and the HZJ77 have then?
do gasser 60s share thesame axles as their deisel counter parts?

You can convert the elocker to air activated much more reliable especially un-locking which is where the problem lies. The elocker mechanism appears to get warped easily and jam requiring it to be dismantled on the trail to disengage it .

 

[crushers]

and air actuated adds other issues such as the need for a air source (compressor, tank, hand pump), air line which in colder climates can freeze up leaving the unit usless for either engaging or disengaging at the most inopertune time, air lines that can get snagged on underbrush.
i must live a very fortunate life since i have yet to have any issues with the electric lockers and i am not gentle on my equipment.

as for electric lockers for the front of the 78 series, you can use the elec unit from a 80 series.

each to their own,
61 = dated parts
78 = light duty front and rear diffs.
77 = weak front diff if open style

61 = kick ass engine and drivetrain
78 = problematic engine
77 = new generation very reliable engines that you can still source parts for.

80/81 = mall queen, great for the family man that doesn't want to own a minivan. great posure truck for those that can not afford the 77 series.

You can convert the elocker to air activated much more reliable especially un-locking which is where the problem lies. The elocker mechanism appears to get warped easily and jam requiring it to be dismantled on the trail to disengage it .

 

[CYRUS]

You can convert the elocker to air activated much more reliable especially un-locking which is where the problem lies. The elocker mechanism appears to get warped easily and jam requiring it to be dismantled on the trail to disengage it .

well that kinda didnt really answer my question but thanks for the info

and air actuated adds other issues such as the need for a air source (compressor, tank, hand pump), air line which in colder climates can freeze up leaving the unit usless for either engaging or disengaging at the most inopertune time, air lines that can get snagged on underbrush.
i must live a very fortunate life since i have yet to have any issues with the electric lockers and i am not gentle on my equipment.

as for electric lockers for the front of the 78 series, you can use the elec unit from a 80 series.

each to their own,
61 = dated parts
78 = light duty front and rear diffs.
77 = weak front diff if open style

61 = kick ass engine and drivetrain
78 = problematic engine
77 = new generation very reliable engines that you can still source parts for.

80/81 = mall queen, great for the family man that doesn't want to own a minivan. great posure truck for those that can not afford the 77 series.

how much do 77s normally go for?
when you say new generation... what yr would that be?

 

[crushers]

value of 77s:
depends on condition, last 2 i sold were just shy of $30K but these were extremely clean units.
you can get them for under $15K but they are high mileage and low auction grade. depends on final use, if family DD and real clean then hard to find and huge coin. if bush beater quality then much easier to find cheaper.
new generation: 1990 HZJ/PZJ/HDT (KZ are still light duty time bombs in my books)

 

[SimonInAustralia]

LJ = 2L 2.4 litre 4 cylinder diesel engine and 2.4 22R petrol (LJ77) also same as LJ78.

Wouldn't the petrol 22R version be called the RJ78 or RJ77?

I thought the L in the model code was for the 2L/T/TE/etc, and the R was for the 22R?

 

[crushers]

R = gasser 4 banger...

 

[CYRUS]

are 80/81 axels as strong as the 77 and HJ6* axle?

 

[crushers]

the rear diffs are the same for all of them in strength.
the front as "mini truck" diff strength for the 77/81. the front of the 61 is the full sized (same as the rear center unit) diff and extremely strong.

 

[lulo]

full sized diffs can be swapped front and rear.

I agree 100%