Safety of trim packers.

[Cañonero]

Hello, I'd like to ask you about the trim packers, or coil spring spacer, what I think it's the same.

I just fitted the new suspension and tires of my 80 and I'm a little big dissapointed whith the new size.

I fitted 32" BFG All Terrain and 2" Eibach springs and Koni Raid Shocks and the maximum height of the Toy is only 76.05 inches.

I think the reason is the Eibach springs are designed for a petrol 80 with no extra weight and mine is diesel and got quite a few accessories that weight a lot like rear and front bumpers.

The think is: I've seen the spacers made by OME or Ironman, available from 5 to 50 mm to increase the height, but a friend advised me that, with a trim packer bigger that 10 mm, the car would become a little unstable and unpredictable on the road. In fact, OME only makes 5 and 10 mm.

What do you think?, safety on the road is important for me and I'm a little bit worried now. My first Idea was to fit 30 mm in the front and 20 mm in the rear, cause the car is much lower on the front, but, If I don't have some safety warranties, I'd rather go to 20 mm in the front and 10 mm in the rear or even only 10 mm in the front.

Thank you for your help.

 

[george_tlc]

The think is: I've seen the spacers made by OME or Ironman, available from 50 to 500 mm to increase the height, but a friend advised me that, with a trim packer bigger that 100 mm, the car would become a little unstable and unpredictable on the road. In fact, OME only makes 50 and 100 mm.

What do you think?, safety on the road is important for me and I'm a little bit worried now. My first Idea was to fit 300 mm in the front and 200 mm in the rear, cause the car is much lower on the front, but, If I don't have some safety warranties, I'd rather go to 200 mm in the front and 100 mm in the rear or even only 100 mm in the front.

Thank you for your help.

Um - I think we've got some metric conversion issues here...

100mm = 4" - you aren't seriously talking about a spring spacer/packer that is 4" ???

500mm = 1/2 metre - about 1.5 FEET - which is even more unlikely.

Typical OEM trim packers are in the 5mm to 10mm range. They are generally just for leveling one side up and FINE tuning, not for achieving lift.

cheers,
george.

 

[Cañonero]

Sorry, you are absolutely right, let me edit my post.

I know they were originally designed for levelling, but I've seen in ebay trim packers from rock crawler and tough dog even to 50 mm.

What I'm not sure and I'd like to know your opinion is about the stability and safety on the road with that big spacers.

Thanks a lot.

 

[sseaman]

i wouldnt use ebay as my source for product information

 

[e9999]

not too sure how a spacer of 50mm would make the truck "unstable" given their location, but that does seem a bit much to me all the same. 20 or 30mm should be fine I would think. One problem with poly spacers is that they make the locating "cone" less effective in the front. There are metal ones that bolt in place that don't do that and would be more durable also.

 

[rtarh2o]

I drove about 70,000 miles with the Mr Gasket 1" front spacers in my old 94 FZJ80. They are a hard rubber spacer that fit on top of the springs. I never noticed any different driving characteristics from stock. I checked them occasionally and they always looked like they were holding up well. I now own another 94 I am doing a diesel conversion on and am again using the Mr Gasket spacers in the front and don't anticipate any problems. I wouldn't worry about them.
Rusty

 

[IdahoDoug]

Raising the vehicle's center of gravity by use of a spacer is a bad idea. It raises the CG without including a new spring that's strength and other characteristics would/should account for this new CG. In other words, the spring you leave in is inadequate to cope with the different (easier roll of the body) characteristics of raising 2 tons an inch. Ditto not changing shocks of course, but that wasn't the question.

Best way to raise a vehicle if you absolutely HAVE to is using matched springs and shocks that are designed and sold for use together. To my knowledge, only Old Man Emu does this. Of course for stock heights the factory springs and shocks are best.

DougM

 

[Cañonero]

IdahoDoug.

That's exactly the problem. The Eibach springs / koni raid shocks are sold as a 2" kit to be used together. The problem is, i think because of the extra weight of the bumpers, my truck only lifted 1.4" in the rear and 0.9" in the front. That means as well that the shocks are working compressed even with the truck unloaded, and this shocks are designed to work with a 2" lift.

That's the reason I wanted to make it 2" using 30 mm spacers in the front and 20 mm in the rear, but, I'd like to make sure before that it's a safe and stable option. If not, as I said before, I'd go to 20mm in the front and 10mm in the rear or even only 10mm in the front.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Cañonero]

Hello.

I just came back to see a friend of the spanish forum that's got another 80 with the same suspension kit as I got and...surprise!!.
His truck reached the 2" promised with the kit.

He's got the same 32" tires in his case mud terrain, mines are all terrain, and a very similar front bumper. His rear bumper is the stock one, but he's got the kaymar rear spare wheel carrier, what is quite heavy as well.

We compared the trucks and his is almost 1" taller than mine both in the rear and in the front.

We can't understand why, we have the same tire size, the same suspension kit and a very similar weight in the truck, both are diesel and automatic. The only big difference is that his is LHD and european and mine is RHD and japanese.

Could the mechanic that installed my springs did it in a bad way?, maybe the japanese version has the springs holders in a different position or my springs are defective?. We are completely sure that is the same kit. We even checked the part numbers impressed in the springs and are the same.

Any ideas?

 

[landtank]

first we here typically measure the distance from the center of the hub to the bottom lip of the fender. That way we are measuring lift height alone and not total height which would include the tires and weight of the vehicle.

Typically a 2" increase would yield a hub center to fender measurement of around 570mm.

Second I for one don't like spacers. I have used one of 25mm but it was while I was waiting on a new spring. The spacer solution was no where near as good as the spring solution.

Take the measurements as I described for both the front and rear and post them up and others can better help you out.

 

[Cañonero]

Thank you LandTank.

What are the reasons you don't like the spacers solution?

The riding quality is worse?, the stability of the car is reduced?, the suspension works worse off road?

Thank you.

PD: I'll measure the lift the way you told me tomorrow, when I meet my friend again.

 

[landtank]

if the springs are supposed to yield 2" of lift and you only get 1" then the springs are carrying more weight than they were designed to. This leads to control problems where the truck will tend to lean more in cornering because as you corner the weight is going from a shared load to one predominantly to one side. If the shared load is already more than the springs are designed to handle then the shifted load is way over the top and the springs can't deal with the load shift properly.

Similar things happen when you are offroad and one tire is ask to climb over an obstacle and that springs needs to support a greater percentage of the weight.

If you need more height I'd get a spring with a higher spring rate.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
What are the reasons you don't like the spacers solution?

The riding quality is worse?, the stability of the car is reduced?, the suspension works worse off road?
...

Spacers work well, as long as they are setup correctly. The springs must have enough spring rate to handle the truck at it's new height. This is why I would never add spacers to stock springs. IMHO they are too soft at stock height, so would be way too soft for a taller truck. I don't know about the spring brand that you have, but if they are sold as lift springs, one would hope that they have a firmer rate?

The other issue comes into play off road. Springs don't live long if over flexed, if coils can touch, it's called coil bind and will quickly kill them. The extension travel is limited by the shock and compression by the bump stop. Most springs are wound to use this travel, if a spacer is added and the stop isn't lowered, the length between spring perches is shorter and the spring can be over compressed.

Here again don't have any experience with your springs. Some springs are made with relatively small wire and few coils, they can generally handle some over compression. Other springs have fat wire and lots of coils, so will coil bind. The easy way to tell is flex the truck, so that the axle is touching the stop and look at the compressed spring, if the coils are close to touching you probably don't want to use spacers with them. If there is room you can most likely run them.

 

[Cañonero]

There's no worry at all about the firmness of the springs.

They are even too firm!

I compared mine with a guy's 80 with the ome 2" kit recently installed and his was much taller, but much softer.

We jumped on the front and rear of both trucks and his bounced quite a lot, mine almost didn't bounce at all.

I think the problem is not they are soft, the problem is they are short.

Anyway, I'll flex the truck and have a look to make sure as you advised me to.

Thank you.

 

[Qball]

As spring compress the spring rate goes up so since your is compressed 1 inch more than they should be you are sitting higher in their spring rate curve. Most springs have softer initial compression rate for small bump compliance and stiffen up to control the larger hits.

Get the proper springs for your weight so you are sitting at the right height and have much better ride because you are sitting at the designed point in the spring rate curve.

I'm thinking about the spacers because I just want a little more height. I been thinking about longer spring but all of them are designed for a loaded rig and mine is pretty stock so I don't want to rattle my teeth loose.

There's no worry at all about the firmness of the springs.

They are even too firm!

I compared mine with a guy's 80 with the ome 2" kit recently installed and his was much taller, but much softer.

We jumped on the front and rear of both trucks and his bounced quite a lot, mine almost didn't bounce at all.

I think the problem is not they are soft, the problem is they are short.

Anyway, I'll flex the truck and have a look to make sure as you advised me to.

Thank you.