Rusty GX Frame? Class Action Started for 4th Gen 4runner Owners, GX470 Owners may be added (1 Viewer)

[MoJ]

That's true, but my Toyota is by far the worst out of any of the vehicles I have owned (Japanese and otherwise) in terms of rust. Domestic trucks and SUVs rust out around here too, but it's the body, not the frame. Toyota is somewhat unique with frame rust. Toyota must be doing something different (i.e., worse) to have frames that get so crusty relative to their competitors.

Are you the original owner?

 

[RustyGX]

Yeah Dana no longer makes the frames. Metalsa took over ~2009-2011 timeframe and yet we still have rolling frame anti-corrosion spray campaigns to combat rust. Go figure. Part of this is a smokescreen in my opinion. My conspiracy theory is Toyota frame coat does indeed suck. Can it be maintained with adequate anti-corrosion coats and rinsing? Yes I wholeheartedly believe so. Do frames fall apart when not tended to? Yes I also believe so, but what modern vehicle doesn’t? Maybe Toyotas degrade at a faster rate.

But what I believe has happened with 4th gen 4Runners/GX470s is a boxed frame prone to trapping garbage, in part due to all the holes exposed around wheel wells. People tend to claim they’ve done adequate rinsing or protecting of the frame but I tend to doubt it. I evidence that by the multitude of people popping on to Tacoma forums and acting like they’ve never heard of frame rust and the Tacoma rust history and act all shocked that their 2nd hand purchase is Swiss cheese, like they’ve never been under the vehicle.

I think these frames don’t drain well to begin with so unless you flush them out once a season, you accumulate salt and garbage. Which lends credence to the frames rotting from inside out. Couple that with your cats producing heat and adding to accelerated rust. The frames rust out predominantly near the cat converters.

In this lawsuit the guys LCA mount separated. I can’t imagine what his frame must have actually looked like and how it was so poorly taken care of to get that way.

I get the boxed frame issue - but here is what is so strange about my frame - the outside of the frame wasn't looking so bad, surface rust in some areas only. The inside of the boxed frame is still smooth, like new, except where the rust has worked its way through into the inside. So I don't think it is clogged up debris in frames on my vehicle.

But... in-between the layers, the metal is acting like a sponge. So I can go find a spot that is clean on the outside, clean on the inside, give it a little tap with something metal and...it crumbles or layers come apart, revealing that the middle layers of the metal are garbage. This piece was from a tap on the frame and fell off. IMHO, this isn't simply metal rusting from the outside layers in. EDIT: I wanted to note that this piece coming off didn't create a hole in my frame. There is still a lot of thickness there, the metal is expanding. It is weird stuff.

 

[RustyGX]

I gave up following this lawsuit (had been since it surfaced in 2018 and the filings with NHTSA) because the initial premise and research behind their assertions was so stupid and showed immediate lack of any basic research into the issue. Initially they suggested that this affected 2005-2011 4Runners which is a year range that makes zero sense and seems to be lazily tied to like-gen Tacoma class action. Yet they cite the initial Tacoma recall which was 1st gens up to 04 MY. Has any of this changed?

They also suggested this was a Dana issue similar to Tacos/Sequioas/Tundras when the 4Runner is made in Japan. Unless I missed something I was unaware Dana made any of the 4Runner or GX frames.

The case also sounded like Weinreich just rolled his 4Runner through salt water down in Charleston to end up in his situation. It’s the only explanation since Toyota’s don’t rust like that down south without salt exposure of some sort and it sure as hell isn’t from winter roads.

Again, I haven’t been following recently. Maybe this has been amended or updated. I hadn’t bothered to pull any of the public court documents since it looked like such a waste of time. If it is still as I observed above then godspeed. I had a 4th gen 4Runner, was pretty up to date on the rust issues and recently sold. I had faith this might have panned out, reached out to Bell a long long time ago and heard nothing back, so….meh.

I think the big difference in progress for them to move forward was the discovery documentation they received from Toyota (but may be blowing smoke). The lawsuit is specific to 2003-2009 4runners right now. I agree that it is possible they lazily tied it to the Tacoma class action years when they started it up - especially since I had to explain to them that the GX470 frame is the same as the 4runner (technically, the GX470 frame is more identical to the V8 4runner than the similarities V8 to V6 4runner, because they changed the engine cradle frame for the V6). I can't find records of Dana having to pay out or complaints about other frames they manufactured, but I can find complaints about other Toyota frames which were not made by Dana. If the class action people don't get interest from people on the GX470, that side of it is dead. So if there is any interest out there, DM me just to say you may be emailing their office or going on that conference call... otherwise I will probably tell them I couldn't find people. I feel like I'm working hard for something I likely will not qualify for... but I want to still have the love for the GX470/GX460, and this rust thing is killing my boner for it.

 

[Rednexus]

I get the boxed frame issue - but here is what is so strange about my frame - the outside of the frame wasn't looking so bad, surface rust in some areas only. The inside of the boxed frame is still smooth, like new, except where the rust has worked its way through into the inside. So I don't think it is clogged up debris in frames on my vehicle.

But... in-between the layers, the metal is acting like a sponge. So I can go find a spot that is clean on the outside, clean on the inside, give it a little tap with something metal and...it crumbles or layers come apart, revealing that the middle layers of the metal are garbage. This piece was from a tap on the frame and fell off. IMHO, this isn't simply metal rusting from the outside layers in. EDIT: I wanted to note that this piece coming off didn't create a hole in my frame. There is still a lot of thickness there, the metal is expanding. It is weird stuff.

Your picture freaked me out enough that I stepped away from my computer, grabbed a hammer, and spent my work break knocking around on the frame of my GX. Luckily, it's totally solid. I also poked my fingers in the frame holes and didn't feel any metal corrosion.

There is, however, a nice layer of junk in the bottom of the frame. Probably from my mud and creek-crossing expeditions. I fluid-filmed the interior of the frame back in April and coated it pretty good (and it appears to be doing it's job and is intact at least on the sides if the frame interior), although I'd imagine the effectiveness to reduce if there is a lot of dirt/mud that wicks the fluid film off of the metal.

Has anyone successfully washed out the interior of these frames? I might try this later this fall when I touch up my frame coating. Looks like the Tacoma and 3rd gen T4R guys frame wash pretty often. I think it's OK if some rocks remain in the frame (as they are essentially non-porous and don't hold water) but I'd like to get the dirt/mud out (which is porous will retain water). I'll then re-fluid-film the interior of the frame and apply a LOT of the stuff.

 

[VSPro9]

Your picture freaked me out enough that I stepped away from my computer, grabbed a hammer, and spent my work break knocking around on the frame of my GX. Luckily, it's totally solid. I also poked my fingers in the frame holes and didn't feel any metal corrosion.

There is, however, a nice layer of junk in the bottom of the frame. Probably from my mud and creek-crossing expeditions. I fluid-filmed the interior of the frame back in April and coated it pretty good (and it appears to be doing it's job and is intact at least on the sides if the frame interior), although I'd imagine the effectiveness to reduce if there is a lot of dirt/mud that wicks the fluid film off of the metal.

Has anyone successfully washed out the interior of these frames? I might try this later this fall when I touch up my frame coating. Looks like the Tacoma and 3rd gen T4R guys frame wash pretty often. I think it's OK if some rocks remain in the frame (as they are essentially non-porous and don't hold water) but I'd like to get the dirt/mud out (which is porous will retain water). I'll then re-fluid-film the interior of the frame and apply a LOT of the stuff.

I have one of those snake cameras on my desk at work, i should poke around. Scared of what I’ll find though

 

[Acrad]

I have one of those snake cameras on my desk at work, i should poke around. Scared of what I’ll find though

I've been pretty happy with this Depstech Model: DS450-SJ.

It has two cameras... one on the end of course but also one on the side.

Dual-Lens Industrial Endoscope 1080P HD Camera with 4.5" IPS Screen 16.5ft

The dual-lens digital endoscope inspection camera can inspect the range of 80° in front and its side with the ergonomics design, allowing you to observe the pipeline's inner situation more conveniently.

depstech.com

The snake cable is 16.5 feet long too.

 

[VSPro9]

That’s way nicer than mine, but mines free at work lol

 

[Rednexus]

I have a Harbor Freight cheapie camera (totally forgot it was on my tool shelf until @VSPro9's post) and will take some pics of the inners of my frame, perhaps before and after the inner frame wash.

 

[jdevtac]

I get the boxed frame issue - but here is what is so strange about my frame - the outside of the frame wasn't looking so bad, surface rust in some areas only. The inside of the boxed frame is still smooth, like new, except where the rust has worked its way through into the inside. So I don't think it is clogged up debris in frames on my vehicle.

But... in-between the layers, the metal is acting like a sponge. So I can go find a spot that is clean on the outside, clean on the inside, give it a little tap with something metal and...it crumbles or layers come apart, revealing that the middle layers of the metal are garbage. This piece was from a tap on the frame and fell off. IMHO, this isn't simply metal rusting from the outside layers in. EDIT: I wanted to note that this piece coming off didn't create a hole in my frame. There is still a lot of thickness there, the metal is expanding. It is weird stuff.

View attachment 2779852

I think what you are observing is the minimal gap between where the layers overlap going to pot. Water can get held there just by capillary action and surface tension probably given the gap is pretty small. You can see this overlap especially well up near the front most cab mount. The nice big square hole on the inside of the frame in that area adjacent to the cat has a double layer of metal. This is what’s rusting from the inside out, same way the Tacomas rust. So I can agree, you may be able to see pretty clean frame on the inside and have that section of frame just fall apart. It’s exactly what killed my 4Runner’s frame, and what I caught very early on my 470 in the same exact area and have hopefully halted as the rest of my frame is super clean.

That’s where it starts, then any further accumulation of say road salt, etc compounds it. Which is why if you look at a lot of current Tacomas, 4Runners, GX460s, etc you will find they have a ton of plastic frame hole plugs from factory. Toyota even added additional plugs at the transition from boxed frame to sandwiched C-channel on Tacomas. And then you’ve got ambient heat from the cats contributing too.

Funny enough the passenger side on these different vehicles universally develop issues before driver side. Mostly hypothesized to be due to added water drainage on the frame from the AC drain. Some people call bs on that hypothesis.

Anyway, hopefully it works out. I don’t have much hope.

 

[RustyGX]

I think what you are observing is the minimal gap between where the layers overlap going to pot. Water can get held there just by capillary action and surface tension probably given the gap is pretty small. You can see this overlap especially well up near the front most cab mount. The nice big square hole on the inside of the frame in that area adjacent to the cat has a double layer of metal. This is what’s rusting from the inside out, same way the Tacomas rust. So I can agree, you may be able to see pretty clean frame on the inside and have that section of frame just fall apart. It’s exactly what killed my 4Runner’s frame, and what I caught very early on my 470 in the same exact area and have hopefully halted as the rest of my frame is super clean.

That’s where it starts, then any further accumulation of say road salt, etc compounds it. Which is why if you look at a lot of current Tacomas, 4Runners, GX460s, etc you will find they have a ton of plastic frame hole plugs from factory. Toyota even added additional plugs at the transition from boxed frame to sandwiched C-channel on Tacomas. And then you’ve got ambient heat from the cats contributing too.

Funny enough the passenger side on these different vehicles universally develop issues before driver side. Mostly hypothesized to be due to added water drainage on the frame from the AC drain. Some people call bs on that hypothesis.

Anyway, hopefully it works out. I don’t have much hope.

This piece came from an area right by the passenger front cab mount. You nailed it without even seeing my vehicle.

 

[KeithMD]

As a new LC200 owner the depth of information on this forum has been a terrific knowledge builder. When I purchased my vehicle (2019MY, mid-Atlantic based) last month, it had just over 12K miles.

During my PPI of the undercarriage, some of the weld lines exhibited surface corrosion, mostly isolated to the inner lower hitch area (as with most models), the spare tire brace bar and front end tow “ring” attach points. See pictures of the affected areas, including some remediation I did over the weekend.

My question to the group. Are other late model owners experiencing similar corrosion issues or is this what I should expect from a Land Cruiser?

 

[SteveH]

My question to the group. Are other late model owners experiencing similar corrosion issues or is this what I should expect from a Land Cruiser?

That's pretty much what east coast vehicles look like, based on what has been posted here. Very typical. Even if I wirewheeled and repainted, I would coat with Fluid Film yearly. On a lift, preferably.

 

[RustyGX]

As a new LC200 owner the depth of information on this forum has been a terrific knowledge builder. When I purchased my vehicle (2019MY, mid-Atlantic based) last month, it had just over 12K miles.

During my PPI of the undercarriage, some of the weld lines exhibited surface corrosion, mostly isolated to the inner lower hitch area (as with most models), the spare tire brace bar and front end tow “ring” attach points. See pictures of the affected areas, including some remediation I did over the weekend.

My question to the group. Are other late model owners experiencing similar corrosion issues or is this what I should expect from a Land Cruiser? View attachment 2786237View attachment 2786240View attachment 2786238View attachment 2786239
That is rough for a 2019. Looks like you will be on top of it...but wow. I don't feel like that is what

My question to the group. Are other late model owners experiencing similar corrosion issues or is this what I should expect from a Land Cruiser?

That's pretty much what east coast vehicles look like, based on what has been posted here. Very typical. Even if I wirewheeled and repainted, I would coat with Fluid Film yearly. On a lift, preferably.

I am not doubting you, but is that really how a 2019 should look around the welds? Looks like certain welds on the front only rusted...

 

[KeithMD]

That's pretty much what east coast vehicles look like, based on what has been posted here. Very typical. Even if I wirewheeled and repainted, I would coat with Fluid Film yearly. On a lift, preferably.

Thanks. Fluid Film appears to be the preferred "cocktail" remedy. Does it deteriorate plastic or rubber parts?

 

[SteveH]

I have no experience with Fluid Film on rubber or plastic, but most car parts are pretty hardy. You could wipe any excess off plastics, if you have access. What I like is that it leaves a thick film coating behind that (when covered with dust) should provide a lot of protection. Areas that see a lot of wind/dirt/spray will need more frequent reapplication. There is no such thing as a 'one time' rustproofing where you apply it and never go back and inspect it later. Rust truly never sleeps.

 

[Rednexus]

My GX is coated with Woolwax on the exterior of the frame/suspension and Fluid Film on the inside of the frame. Woolwax is similar but thicker, and pretty hard to get off (even with a pressure washer). Both a great products with touch-ups one or two times a year. I think a Toyota treated since new with these products would probably never develop rust issues. It's an easy DIY job too; I did it in my driveway with the GX on jackstands, using the Kellsport coating gun and a small air compressor.

 

[RustyGX]

My GX is coated with Woolwax on the exterior of the frame/suspension and Fluid Film on the inside of the frame. Woolwax is similar but thicker, and pretty hard to get off (even with a pressure washer). Both a great products with touch-ups one or two times a year. I think a Toyota treated since new with these products would probably never develop rust issues. It's an easy DIY job too; I did it in my driveway with the GX on jackstands, using the Kellsport coating gun and a small air compressor.

Reading about peoples Woolwax experiences with Toyotas online, I think you are right. And it doesn't reek, like Fluid Film does. I may have been past the point of no return when I tried Fluid film. I want to get another Lexus or Toyota SUV without feeling like an idiot when it rusts out. If I do, I will use this stuff instead

 

[SteveH]

I have used Fluid Film on exterior surfaces, but I think using it in areas that are connected to the truck's interior (such as inside a rear quarter panel) would be a bad idea.

As a kid in Michigan, I mixed up gasoline and 90wt. gear oil and sprayed that inside door cavities - the gasoline got the mixture into the seams and evaporated, leaving the 90wt gear oil behind. Stunk, but worked. I have made semi-solid rustproofing with heated paraffin and ATF - works great, forms a scummy coating, odor free (mostly) and cheap to make. Apply warm with a paint brush.

 

[Rednexus]

So I touched up my undercoating today by spraying the new lift/suspension parts I had installed, re-spraying the fenderwells (which had turned dirt-colored due to offroading), and hitting up a few other things in preparation of cooler weather.

I re-inspected my frame and, sure enough, there was some interior rust on the passenger side, just in front of the body mount, where the frame is multi-layered. Around a 2-3" interior section of the overlap was rusty and there were some flakes/chunks sitting on the bottom of the frame. This area still felt really solid when hit with a hammer from the outside and, when inspected with my snake camera, rust seemed restricted to just that small area. I soaked the area in Fluid Film, as well as the rest of the interior of my frame, from front to back.

The driver's side was perfect in this area so it must be the AC drain line dripping on and into the frame that caused the issue. I will do the extension for that line the next time I pull the GX in the shop and keep soaking this area with Fluid Film 2X a year. Hopefully that stops it as I want to be still driving this GX 10 years from now.

 

[jdevtac]

So I touched up my undercoating today by spraying the new lift/suspension parts I had installed, re-spraying the fenderwells (which had turned dirt-colored due to offroading), and hitting up a few other things in preparation of cooler weather.

I re-inspected my frame and, sure enough, there was some interior rust on the passenger side, just in front of the body mount, where the frame is multi-layered. Around a 2-3" interior section of the overlap was rusty and there were some flakes/chunks sitting on the bottom of the frame. This area still felt really solid when hit with a hammer from the outside and, when inspected with my snake camera, rust seemed restricted to just that small area. I soaked the area in Fluid Film, as well as the rest of the interior of my frame, from front to back.

The driver's side was perfect in this area so it must be the AC drain line dripping on and into the frame that caused the issue. I will do the extension for that line the next time I pull the GX in the shop and keep soaking this area with Fluid Film 2X a year. Hopefully that stops it as I want to be still driving this GX 10 years from now.

Fwiw I bought a frame plug kit set for a 2nd gen Tacoma that was part of one of the rust campaigns. I can post the part number and TW thread. It comes with an assortment of plugs for the forward section of frame, and some leftover for other random holes. Will allow you to block off a lot of the rectangular holes up front and prevent junk getting into the frame. Especially road salt if you are in an applicable area. Most current Toyota’s now come with hole plugs in high wash areas. GX460s too.

Edit:
Thread with individual plug part # Frame plug info - https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/frame-plug-info.345438/

And the pieces together kit:

04002-07104​

You can see the holes in my frame plugged up.