Willing to travel ..any suggestions or recommendations for rollcage and install? I'd like to get it done before Logan's run. Just pondering the possibilities..
rollcage suggestions
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MetalTech makes a nice kit and is an ONSC sponsor (Darin is probably the closest I'd trust to build - I'll let him speak for himself but I think he's swamped). But, I would just take it to Stan and let him build you one on site (also a ONSC supporter and member 
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R
). R
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Which one is stan?
Redline makes a nice looking kit. Bent tubes and plates. Weld it up yourself or have a welder to do it.
Good morning, I am Stan 
I would suggest a Metal Tech cage and tie in kit. The are well designed and you simply can not beat the price for what you get. It is a kit that requires fitment and welding together on site. The tie in kit comes with everything but hardware required to tie the cage to the frame. The cage is just for show unless you tie it to the frame and can actually hurt you in a roll over if you do not tie it to the frame. It can also be customized for your specific needs and wants as well.
I installed one of these cages in a BJ42. You can see the install here on my web site.
http://hfs4x4.com/category/hfs-toyota-bj42-build
I would suggest a Metal Tech cage and tie in kit. The are well designed and you simply can not beat the price for what you get. It is a kit that requires fitment and welding together on site. The tie in kit comes with everything but hardware required to tie the cage to the frame. The cage is just for show unless you tie it to the frame and can actually hurt you in a roll over if you do not tie it to the frame. It can also be customized for your specific needs and wants as well.
I installed one of these cages in a BJ42. You can see the install here on my web site.
http://hfs4x4.com/category/hfs-toyota-bj42-build
We are putting the Metal Tech cage in our FJ43. They were great to work with and I think with the bushings on the tie in kit (we made them up) the vibrations won't be to bad.
After your almost nose over after losing steering control last year I think a cage is a good idea. Either that or powersteering
After your almost nose over after losing steering control last year I think a cage is a good idea. Either that or powersteering
Your husband seemed plenty handy when I met you guys....so
Buy a metal tech cage and have him fit it up and tack weld it. Borrow a buzz box or a 110 mig.
Then take it to a professional and certified tig welder to burn it together.
I'd highly recommend the TIG process for a cage.
I'd also recommend that you not buy the a pillar bar bent around the dash - it's plenty strong the way metal tech makes it but straighter is much stronger. New race rules are calling for a straight bar if the bar is bent to match the A pillar.
Make sure you double check the door and top clearances of the cage...
Buy a metal tech cage and have him fit it up and tack weld it. Borrow a buzz box or a 110 mig.
Then take it to a professional and certified tig welder to burn it together.
I'd highly recommend the TIG process for a cage.
I'd also recommend that you not buy the a pillar bar bent around the dash - it's plenty strong the way metal tech makes it but straighter is much stronger. New race rules are calling for a straight bar if the bar is bent to match the A pillar.
Make sure you double check the door and top clearances of the cage...
Many folks have multiple rollovers on the MetalTech design to prove it's pretty solid. Most say a true roll necessitates replacement (I know, up for much debate) - but real world results have proven it's solid. I need to add a couple spreaders to my MT family cage and tie the rear to the frame, but I figured most the places I have "tested" it, a flop has been worst case scenario.
Ramon
RamonRamon,
I think Metal Tech is plenty strong and super well designed for off road use, however recent research in road racing cage design has found that more than one bend in A pillar bars is not a the best idea unless another bar is placed next to it.
In a FJ40 a roll cage designed for a hit of this severety would only manifest itself with at freeway speeds or down a mountain side - not in normal off road. So, for most east coast wheeling I agree it would be more than adequate.
I don't think there is anything wrong with Metal Tech - I have bought one myself. Just passing along info!
http://www.customcages.co.uk/news-room/msa-rule-changes-and-update-kits
See figure 2.6 in this link
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf
I'm probably away over the top on this but FJ40's are pretty heavy compared to a rally car - even if they are going a lot slower.
I think Metal Tech is plenty strong and super well designed for off road use, however recent research in road racing cage design has found that more than one bend in A pillar bars is not a the best idea unless another bar is placed next to it.
In a FJ40 a roll cage designed for a hit of this severety would only manifest itself with at freeway speeds or down a mountain side - not in normal off road. So, for most east coast wheeling I agree it would be more than adequate.
I don't think there is anything wrong with Metal Tech - I have bought one myself. Just passing along info!
http://www.customcages.co.uk/news-room/msa-rule-changes-and-update-kits
See figure 2.6 in this link
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf
I'm probably away over the top on this but FJ40's are pretty heavy compared to a rally car - even if they are going a lot slower.
I didn't take it that way at all, just adding some to the conversation. There are many, many threads on mud debating this issue - ad nauseam. I feel pretty safe with what I have and where I wheel. Rear frame ties (to compliment the front ones) and additional spreaders will be added before Moab or anything else with high risk.
RCool. I hate how things are lost in translation when posted or email or much worse texted. I was just clarifying that MT makes some good s***.
I'd add to your point that five point belts add a huge margin of safety as they keep your head away from the cage bars. BUT...the rear shoulder bar placement is super critical to make them safe
Diest Safety makes "jeep" seatbelt set which I have run since the mid 1980's that was designed to not need a shoulder cross bar. PN is 232J5 Jeep 5 pt. assembly but it gets in the way of the rear seat.
You can just use the lower belt if you want to when off road.
Schothe also makes some great seatbelts designed to be used with out a shoulder bar.
I'd add to your point that five point belts add a huge margin of safety as they keep your head away from the cage bars. BUT...the rear shoulder bar placement is super critical to make them safe
Diest Safety makes "jeep" seatbelt set which I have run since the mid 1980's that was designed to not need a shoulder cross bar. PN is 232J5 Jeep 5 pt. assembly but it gets in the way of the rear seat.
You can just use the lower belt if you want to when off road.
Schothe also makes some great seatbelts designed to be used with out a shoulder bar.
Word. I'm running 3pt Corbeau harnesses. Since I have no rear seats, the shoulder strap anchors to the C-Pillar, way up high. I followed their guidelines for max angle on the shoulder straps - many people aren't aware of this and I'd hate to see a safety device be counterproductive. Lord knows, it takes a little getting used to, strapping in and out every time you stop on the trails - which we ONSCers seem to do plenty!
R
R
The roll cage debate is an old one indeed. I would say that every aspect of design has been argued from every angle possible. In the end the basix all still apply. Personally I have no problem with a harness bar. Tieing in to the frame at at least 4 points is mandatory. Using a poly joint on each point certainly helps negate vibrations etc.
I ran 4 point harnesses in the FJC and plan to have the same in any rig we own that goes off road. It does take more time to get in and out of the rig but is wll worth the time for several reasons. Safety is obvious. Fatigue is something most do not think about when considering a 4 or 5 point harness. The amount of arm and upper body energy used to hold yourself in place whil off road is considerable. Being strapped in place, you use very little energy trying to hold yourselff in place. Think about those days when you come off the trail and your arms are just beat.
On the TIG or MIG subjecct, this too has been talked about as much as design. There are proponets and detractors of both. BOTH are plenty strong for a cage in an off road rig. The debate between the two is more concentrated around the use of Chromo tube. Chromo is stronger in strength than DOM and for that reason a smaller size tube can be used and therefore save weight. Chromo requires being "normalized" after welding. This is a process of heating all the metal and then controled cooling. THis is done to negate the changes made to the weld area while heating up during the welding process. TIG is preffered here due to the more controlled nature of the heat applied during welding. Either way it must be normalized to get the benefit of the material being used.
SO the short answer is that for a cage in one of our rigs either will be fine. If you are paying someone else to do it you are going to pay more for TIG due to the time factor. There is a lot of welding involved in a cage.
Personally, I would buy a MT family cage for a 40 I was building myself. The design is good and proven. The cost of the tube alone to design and build a new cage design would be enough to steer me to MT as they buy in volume high enough to buy steel at numbers I can only dream of. Add to that the time to design a different cage and then bend it up, why mess with it.
I ran 4 point harnesses in the FJC and plan to have the same in any rig we own that goes off road. It does take more time to get in and out of the rig but is wll worth the time for several reasons. Safety is obvious. Fatigue is something most do not think about when considering a 4 or 5 point harness. The amount of arm and upper body energy used to hold yourself in place whil off road is considerable. Being strapped in place, you use very little energy trying to hold yourselff in place. Think about those days when you come off the trail and your arms are just beat.
On the TIG or MIG subjecct, this too has been talked about as much as design. There are proponets and detractors of both. BOTH are plenty strong for a cage in an off road rig. The debate between the two is more concentrated around the use of Chromo tube. Chromo is stronger in strength than DOM and for that reason a smaller size tube can be used and therefore save weight. Chromo requires being "normalized" after welding. This is a process of heating all the metal and then controled cooling. THis is done to negate the changes made to the weld area while heating up during the welding process. TIG is preffered here due to the more controlled nature of the heat applied during welding. Either way it must be normalized to get the benefit of the material being used.
SO the short answer is that for a cage in one of our rigs either will be fine. If you are paying someone else to do it you are going to pay more for TIG due to the time factor. There is a lot of welding involved in a cage.
Personally, I would buy a MT family cage for a 40 I was building myself. The design is good and proven. The cost of the tube alone to design and build a new cage design would be enough to steer me to MT as they buy in volume high enough to buy steel at numbers I can only dream of. Add to that the time to design a different cage and then bend it up, why mess with it.
Seeing as I was mentioned I will throw my .0002 Canadian cents in here. I run the MT cage in mine. I like it. But I also add to it for triangulation. Yes it gets heavier, but my and Robins life are worth it. To properly put a 5 point harness in you need to have a bar behind your front seats. It takes away from people getting into the rear that way. You will also need to dump the back side seats and go for a middle forward facing seat for other passengers. That is where that bar comes into play.
There are other good companies out there. Or get a Fab guy to Fab one from scratch. I mig welded my front bumper on my 60 that was in that head on. Non of the welds broke. However the frame broke . I am no certified welder but if my welds held for that then I am entirely happy with my mig welder.
Just my Canadian thoughts.
There are other good companies out there. Or get a Fab guy to Fab one from scratch. I mig welded my front bumper on my 60 that was in that head on. Non of the welds broke. However the frame broke . I am no certified welder but if my welds held for that then I am entirely happy with my mig welder.
Just my Canadian thoughts.
Are Canadian cents worth more then American? Just wondering
You are correct about TIG being ideal for Cro-Mo and MIG being OK for steel however I still personally prefer TIG for heat control - even with mild steel - and I like how the welds look. I also just like how it messes up the interior less and you have to take less stuff apart. Having said that, the last cage I built I used the MIG process...because my TIG skills were not up to par with my MIG skills at the time and I was just using steel tube. So, I generally agree with you on all points.
Mig is plenty strong - but TIG is still better overall (in the hands of a good operator). Where I am from the race car shops charge more for TIG vs MIG but it's not like it's 4x more - IIRC it's about double for TIG vs MIG but then you'd save some by not having to pull every last thing out of the interior and repaint a bunch of stuff.
A properly MIG welded MT cage is a great thing and it's great that so many people have up graded their rigs. Like I said before, it's good stuff. I bought one myself!
EDIT: I should also add that I am a welding nerd and welding is my hobby - what I prefer is not necessarily better than what someone else likes. I went to welding school in the mid 90's and fell in love with the TIG process so I try to use it when possible. That does not mean it's better for everyone else. To me it's more of an art form and a hobby.
Mig is plenty strong - but TIG is still better overall (in the hands of a good operator). Where I am from the race car shops charge more for TIG vs MIG but it's not like it's 4x more - IIRC it's about double for TIG vs MIG but then you'd save some by not having to pull every last thing out of the interior and repaint a bunch of stuff.
A properly MIG welded MT cage is a great thing and it's great that so many people have up graded their rigs. Like I said before, it's good stuff. I bought one myself!
EDIT: I should also add that I am a welding nerd and welding is my hobby - what I prefer is not necessarily better than what someone else likes. I went to welding school in the mid 90's and fell in love with the TIG process so I try to use it when possible. That does not mean it's better for everyone else. To me it's more of an art form and a hobby.
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