Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts? (3 Viewers)

[Reckless]

I thought the R1S had a 410 mile range which would give it better range than the LC and more towing power. All of this is on paper but it seemed legit:

"Rivian says the R1S will have a range up to 400 miles per charge. This EV SUV's all-wheel-drive system is highly sophisticated, using a motor to power each wheel. Total power is whopping: up to 750 horsepower and 829 lb-ft of torque. The Rivian R1S has a towing capacity of 7,700 pounds. "

I haven't had extensive time in an electric vehicle but the idea of not molesting nature appeals to me. I feel like when I am idling anywhere in my LC that I am producing way too much carbon footprint. I am sure there are alot of drawbacks with electric motors. My understanding is that they don't have as many ICE components which makes them more reliable and last longer (if they are built properly). Newer electric motors have transmissions built directly into them. Very few moving parts.

 

[coleAK]

I’ve mentioned this before. My wife drives a Tesla. Honistly it is better than a gas car in every way. I’m at the point now where I feel like my LX is 100+ years behind: having a Transmission is ancient, 2 pedal driving is annoying (regen breaks in EV), turtle slow, the need to re-fuel (EVs fuel at home),... she is currently deployed and I drove my LX today for the first time in 3 weeks because the kids and I went duck hunting. Although I love my 200 if they made a full electric version I would get rid of it in a heartbeat. That said I will never buy another gas vehicle. I’ll keep my ‘13 LX until there is a valid EV option, I’m following rivian close.

Really most the concerns you all are mentioning are not valid. Reliability? EVs have no: transmission, radiator/cooling, transfer case, motor oil,... that can fail, Brushless electric morors go forever, batteries will easy go at least 200-300k miles. Heck there is almost no PM, pretty much just tires and brakes. Really the only slightly valid concern is charging infrastructure outside the Tesla supercharger network, but that only matters on long trips and the newest supercharges can charge 150-200 miles range in ~10min. When people ask me about charging I ask them how often would you need to get gas if you woke up every day with a full tank, not that often. Towing is also a concern since yes EVs are extremely efficient sap towing would cut range by at least 50% but you can charge on 30/50a RV hookups so plug the camper plug the truck. Lastly when I’m not getting enough sun to charge out Tesla for free it would cost me ~$3.50 in electricity to charge 100% of my battery and go >300 miles. Same trip would cost ~$75 in my LX.

 

[Madtiger]

I’ve mentioned this before. My wife drives a Tesla. Honistly it is better than a gas car in every way. I’m at the point now where I feel like my LX is 100+ years behind: having a Transmission is ancient, 2 pedal driving is annoying (regen breaks in EV), turtle slow, the need to re-fuel (EVs fuel at home),... she is currently deployed and I drove my LX today for the first time in 3 weeks because the kids and I went duck hunting. Although I love my 200 if they made a full electric version I would get rid of it in a heartbeat. That said I will never buy another gas vehicle. I’ll keep my ‘13 LX until there is a valid EV option, I’m following rivian close.

Really most the concerns you all are mentioning are not valid. Reliability? EVs have no: transmission, radiator/cooling, transfer case, motor oil,... that can fail, Brushless electric morors go forever, batteries will easy go at least 200-300k miles. Heck there is almost no PM, pretty much just tires and brakes. Really the only slightly valid concern is charging infrastructure outside the Tesla supercharger network, but that only matters on long trips and the newest supercharges can charge 150-200 miles range in ~10min. When people ask me about charging I ask them how often would you need to get gas if you woke up every day with a full tank, not that often. Towing is also a concern since yes EVs are extremely efficient sap towing would cut range by at least 50% but you can charge on 30/50a RV hookups so plug the camper plug the truck. Lastly when I’m not getting enough sun to charge out Tesla for free it would cost me ~$3.50 in electricity to charge 100% of my battery and go >300 miles. Same trip would cost ~$75 in my LX.

All true. I like Teslas a lot. I like them for city traveling. But....

I have a trip next month to go to Big Bend National Park. 9 hours drive to west texas. How you supposed i do that in the Rivian?

On an average vacation trip, how much planning do i have to do to find superchargers along the way. Make sure i find a hotel with one so that i can charge overnight. What if it is summer time or winter time, will i have range anxiety? What if a planned supercharger along the way does not work?

On the LC, while the cost of the trip may be higher due to gas prices, but there is a gas station at every corner. No need to overthink things with my little brain.

And if you go off-roading, then how long does the battery last? 400 miles is max distance....using AC and crawling and/or towing up mountains will certainly deplete the battery much faster. Are there superchargers in small mountain towns?

and so on....

 

[Union]

When I saw it at Overland Expo West, I thought it was really cool. I talked with one of the employees who had a lot of great things to say about it (as you'd expect). I thought the technical aspects were nice and I believe they were advertising around a 400 mile range. I wonder what that translates to on something like alpine loop or BBP. I wouldn't mind having that and a land cruiser lol.

 

[Markuson]

I thought the R1S had a 410 mile range which would give it better range than the LC and more towing power. All of this is on paper but it seemed legit:

"Rivian says the R1S will have a range up to 400 miles per charge. This EV SUV's all-wheel-drive system is highly sophisticated, using a motor to power each wheel. Total power is whopping: up to 750 horsepower and 829 lb-ft of torque. The Rivian R1S has a towing capacity of 7,700 pounds. "
Key words: “Up to ______ miles”

[Edit: The following applies to ALL EV mileage claims…not just Rivian]
Key word = “Up to.”
“Up to...” means flat, perfectly paved roads...no traffic...slick, low/resistance street tires (no knobs)....no hills to climb...no rough terrain...no cargo...no air conditioning on a hot day or heat on a cold day...using none of the various other power features...perfect tires...etc etc etc. Any of the above eat away at the 400 really quickly.

But who travels like that in a Land Cruiser?
Every deviation from the above and that 400 turns into half or less. Throw in towing and forget it.

To me, the main trouble is...there is no way to carry “electric jerry cans.” If you run out of juice in the boonies? -Even a tow truck can’t “refuel you,” nor can a friend make a fuel run to town to bring back a rescue “can” of fuel.

When they put in TWO monster batteries & double/triple range? Then maybe. But still...obscure locations sell gasoline. Not electricity...and the more obscure the location, the less motivated they are to add electrical.

 

[Joe Bob]

It will be interesting to see it burn on a trail when one of the batteries get a puncture.

Lithium batteries have had this problem solved for years, but it was cheaper to use old tech, hence the Samsung ordeal. Lithium car batteries are designed to allow puntures and worse, being shredded in an accident.

 

[Madtiger]

Lithium batteries have had this problem solved for years, but it was cheaper to use old tech, hence the Samsung ordeal. Lithium car batteries are designed to allow puntures and worse, being shredded in an accident.

You sure about that?

Video Tesla in autopilot mode bursts into flames, crashes into parked truck

The alarming accident, caught on camera on a packed Russian highway, engulfed the car in flames but the driver safely escaped with his two kids.

abcnews.go.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/06/18/video-shows-tesla-bursting-into-flames-on-la-street-out-of-the-blue/

Tesla Vehicle Bursts Into Flames, Burns For Hours In Monroeville

A Tesla vehicle was on fire for hours Wednesday night in Monroeville.

pittsburgh.cbslocal.com

 

[coleAK]

Both of you are correct regarding charging. But look at how much charging infrastructure has improved over the last 3 years, exponentially. Almost all the highways have plenty of superchargers in the lower 48, hotels, restaurants, shopping,... are all installing 30/50a. Now think 3-5 years from now how much more there will be.

@Markuson, it’s odd our Tesla is much more efficient at low speeds. In the summer I’m 15-20% more efficient than “rated” so could theoretically go >350 miles from the 310 rated range if I kept it off the highway going >55 mph. Going up hill used more but with regeneration brakes you get 50% back going downhill. When I drive down from the highest point in Anchorage I gain ~10miles back. And yes running the heat uses energy, I see a 30-40% increase in energy usage in the dead of winter here in Alaska.

Last thing around charging. I’m in Alaska, we have no superchargers, and now only 5 towns with destination 30/50a charging stations in the entire state. And Alaska covers almost as much spread as the entire lower 48. We have driven it to Chena hot springs outside Fairbanks for kicks and the trip went from a usual 8 hours to 12. It’s 450 miles each way we had to stop twice to charge at RV parks. If we had superchargers the trip would have taken the same amount of time as a 10-15 min stop every 2-3 hours we would do anyway.

 

[coleAK]

You sure about that?

Video Tesla in autopilot mode bursts into flames, crashes into parked truck

The alarming accident, caught on camera on a packed Russian highway, engulfed the car in flames but the driver safely escaped with his two kids.

abcnews.go.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/06/18/video-shows-tesla-bursting-into-flames-on-la-street-out-of-the-blue/

Tesla Vehicle Bursts Into Flames, Burns For Hours In Monroeville

A Tesla vehicle was on fire for hours Wednesday night in Monroeville.

pittsburgh.cbslocal.com

Do gas cars also burst into flames?

 

[Madtiger]

Do gas cars also burst into flames?

But only one burns for hours and hours and hours.......and fire department has to wait for the whole day.

Tesla Driver Dies In Horrible Crash And Battery Won't Stop Burning

How safe are batteries in modern EVs anyway?

carbuzz.com

Firefighters work 16 hours to put out fires in Tesla Model S

Tesla Model S bursts into flames twice in one day, sparking an investigation.

abcnews.go.com

 

[dnh1]

Maybe you should join an electric vehicle forum. Your complaints about 200s would surely be received better.

 

[GordJ]

I was going to make a comment about "head in the sand" but I decided against it and am going with "great posts Cole, thank you for giving an owners real life opinion of EV's" instead.

 

[coleAK]

I guess to sum it all up. I love my LX, it does everything I need it to do. Exceptional off road, tows like a champ, reliable, comfortable, just the right size. I use it hard, just yesterday someone commented on how “beat up” my Lexus was. I like to think of it as battles scarred. Here in Alaska due to lack of charging infrastructure right now there is no way I would only have EVs and realistically I’m probably 5-10 years from buying a valid EV replacement for my LX and at that time I can’t see me getting rid of the LX. There are probably many areas of the lower 48 where you cold only have EVs but not up here. Basically the future is not internal combustion. I hope Toyota makes a full electric LC some day.

 

[Joe Bob]

You sure about that?

Video Tesla in autopilot mode bursts into flames, crashes into parked truck

The alarming accident, caught on camera on a packed Russian highway, engulfed the car in flames but the driver safely escaped with his two kids.

abcnews.go.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/06/18/video-shows-tesla-bursting-into-flames-on-la-street-out-of-the-blue/

Tesla Vehicle Bursts Into Flames, Burns For Hours In Monroeville

A Tesla vehicle was on fire for hours Wednesday night in Monroeville.

pittsburgh.cbslocal.com

Interesting. I just did a skim and it looks as Tesla is claiming less likelihood of their cars catching fire than of normal gas powered cars. Here's something similar to what my comment comes from. Check it out!

I do think these big companies play a little of the "fight club" game, but there is no need to as lithium has arrived.

 

[Joe Bob]

Can I pose this question? How about a hybrid that uses the battery and electric motors when handling offroad obstacles? It would seem that independent power to each wheel, with high torque, being computer controlled, would make the ultimate overland vehicle. Long range, ultimate crawl control, space for a family of 4 with 2 dogs, and comfortable road driving! I want this! So, far with my 100 and 200 i feel i have the best offered, but the future.looks hopefull. Toyota should be the company that finally does it right... maybe 2030, lol.

 

[RET2]

Key word = “Up to.”
“Up to...” means flat, perfectly paved roads...no traffic...slick, low/resistance street tires (no knobs)....no hills to climb...no rough terrain...no cargo...no air conditioning on a hot day or heat on a cold day...using none of the various other power features...perfect tires...etc etc etc. Any of the above eat away at the 400 really quickly.

But who travels like that in a Land Cruiser?
Every deviation from the above and that 400 turns into half or less. Throw in towing and forget it.

To me, the main trouble is...there is no way to carry “electric jerry cans.” If you run out of juice in the boonies? -Even a tow truck can’t “refuel you,” nor can a friend make a fuel run to town to bring back a rescue “can” of fuel.

When they put in TWO monster batteries & double/triple range? Then maybe. But still...obscure locations sell gasoline. Not electricity...and the more obscure the location, the less motivated they are to add electrical.

Mom, Dad, I'm stuck here in BFE and my car is out of charge what do we do? You know this is going to happen, feel free to sub Honey as applicable. Admittedly still in developmental stages it has a very long way to go to completely replace ICE in my opinion. Waiting patiently on the sidelines.

 

[TeCKis300]

Crawling is one of those use cases that I actually expect an EV to excel at. Both in efficiency and capability. Digitally metered wheel torque control. Perhaps even individual wheel torque vectoring. Crawling uses lots of torque yes, but relatively little power which is what consumes energy. Even the steepest of climbs eventually come down so that potential energy spent, would largely be recouped on the other side. It wouldn't loose much range in this type of use.

It's going to be the unexpected that really pleases with an EV off-road. Imagine no fumes or heat radiating from the car. No fan or engine noise polluting nature. Clean comfortable A/C within. It's these things that one doesn't even notice from their gas car until they experience full electric.

 

[Markuson]

Can I pose this question? How about a hybrid that uses the battery and electric motors when handling offroad obstacles? It would seem that independent power to each wheel, with high torque, being computer controlled, would make the ultimate overland vehicle. Long range, ultimate crawl control, space for a family of 4 with 2 dogs, and comfortable road driving! I want this! So, far with my 100 and 200 i feel i have the best offered, but the future.looks hopefull. Toyota should be the company that finally does it right... maybe 2030, lol.

That's come up on here... Would be sort of like what a Prius does (electric at low speed, engine at higher speed). Prius on steroids...for ultimate wheel control and unlimited torque when dealing with obstacles....then engine power on more efficient high speed stuff and battery tending.

 

[KLF]

I'm also intrigued by EV cars, I'm almost ready to commit to buying one as my next vehicle, whenever that is. I'm not ready to give up my 200 yet, but I do admit that I really enjoy driving the Miata much more. And the charging infrastructure is growing rapidly now. Wonder how hard it would be to convert it to EV.

I spent yesterday doing autocross with my son in his Miata, it was a blast, but it struck me that this is another application where EV could kick butt. The thought of instant torque while negotiating sharp curves and slaloms, I can't wait to see something like this in action!

 

[Sandroad]

For where I live plug in hybrids make a lot of sense. I drive a Honda Clarity which can run an average of 50 miles EV and then can go another 300 on the gas engine. There are not enough working/available charging stations in most of my state to make electric only vehicles viable for me, but that will change. I plug in my car to my solar system each night and have a full “tank” in the morning. I use gas only on road trips of more than 50 miles. I’m hooked on the torque and quiet operation of my car in EV mode. As soon as a medium size PHEV AWD SUV hits a good dealership, I’ll be the first one in the door. (But I’ll keep the LC for towing).