Riddle: intermittent starts with '96 land cruiser

[iMonster]

Hi,

I was hoping someone out there could help me out with a problem that is driving me crazy.
I have a 96 landcruiser that has been acting up lately and has left me and/or my family stranded. Specifically, it has been starting up only when it wants to. The engine turns over fine but will not fire up or start. At first I thought it was the fuel pump and had that replaced (as per the local
Toyota dealership's diagnosis and recommendation -BTW I am in Canada and this model landcruiser wasnt available here so the dealership is useless-which I have found out the hard way). It seemed to solve the problem but to my disappointment - it was temporary. I read here in various threads that it could be an EFI relay problem so I swapped that out too. Result=seemed to work but only temporarily.

Now, what I have noticed is that there is no correlation of the problem no starts to a hot or warm engine- it simply will or will not start even if the engine is cold and the cruzer has been sitting. Secondly, I have noticed that when it will start, the "check engine light" will briefly turn on AND there is a square red light on the instrument panel just above the fuel level gauge - that will turn on (not quite sure what that light indicates?) However, when it doesnt start, (but will turn over) both those previously mentioned lights will not turn on.

If anyone knows what is wrong and/or how to remedy the problem, please let me know.

thanks is advance!

iMonster

 

[Rich]

Do a search on 2 speed fuel pump relay. Your symptoms sound similar to others' descriptions of fuel pump relay issues.

 

[KliersLC]

Assuming you have the 1fz-fe, (dunno what engines were offered up there that year) You might want to check on the wiring harness where it goes through the firewall on the passenger side. I could be mistaken, but IIRC, that has a nasty bend and causes problems with starting. First thing to do though is to pull the codes and see what the old computer is saying. Connect E1 and T1 with the ignition off and then turn it on and observe the flashes. First set is first digit, short pause, second set is second digit, long pause, next set is next code. Post here and we can help you determine which code it is.
Good luck,
Dan

Edit, Or do what rich said, he is much better at this than I am.......



I'd still pull the codes though (sniff)

 

[rockclmbr]

Check the fusible link....

 

[Poriomania]

Check the harness at the EGR valve by the back of the engine, just found mine toasted. It's an easy check and a likely culprit.

 

[semlin]

Assuming you have the 1fz-fe, (dunno what engines were offered up there that year) You might want to check on the wiring harness where it goes through the firewall on the passenger side. I could be mistaken, but IIRC, that has a nasty bend and causes problems with starting. First thing to do though is to pull the codes and see what the old computer is saying. Connect E1 and T1 with the ignition off and then turn it on and observe the flashes. First set is first digit, short pause, second set is second digit, long pause, next set is next code. Post here and we can help you determine which code it is.
Good luck,
Dan

Edit, Or do what rich said, he is much better at this than I am.......



I'd still pull the codes though (sniff)

Dan this won't work on a 96. he has obd2 and needs a scanner to pull a code assuming that is not what normally happens when a 96 starts. can anyone comment on that. i own a 93 with a different dash.

also, where in Canada are you?

 

[landtank]

next time you have this problem hold the accelerated right down to the floor. I beleive this will cause the fuel pump relay to trip over to the other side. I've cleaned my relay ans others have top solve this problem.

 

[KliersLC]

Dan this won't work on a 96. he has obd2 and needs a scanner to pull a code assuming that is not what normally happens when a 96 starts. can anyone comment on that. i own a 93 with a different dash.

also, where in Canada are you?

Well, disregard then, if the other tricks don't work then you'll have to get a scanner, or take it to autozone to get the codes read.

 

[iMonster]

Well, disregard then, if the other tricks don't work then you'll have to get a scanner, or take it to autozone to get the codes read.

Well thanks to all that have responded with advice and suggestions-it is really appreciated. I apologize for not responding sooner but I didnt think people would reply so quickly.

I may have left out a very important part of the puzzle during my initial post which is when it will not fire up = there is no spark. So to recap, the symptoms are:
1.intermittent starting- engine is hot or cold
2. fuel pump and efi relay replaced
3. engine will turn over but will not start
4. when it will not start the check engine light does not flash on as you turn the key to start the engine
5.no spark when it will not start

I think this might change some of the advice offered

 

[RavenTai]

4. when it will not start the check engine light does not flash on as you turn the key

that ushauly means the ECU is not getting power, without the ECU you will not get spark nor fuel,

you have replaced the EFI main relay, the ignition switch is another suspect, could be a wiring fault also,

 

[KliersLC]

I wuz wunderin when you'd be back...

I'd have the codes pulled anyway just to cover that base, but it sounds like a wiring short. On the older (91-92) models, the lack of CEL with key on and ignition off meant a bad EFI relay or wiring harness to it. Many have had to replace that section of wiring with heavier guage. That being said, I think I remember some folks with the newer years occasionally having that same problem. That and the harness rubbing through behind the glove compartment are my guesses.

Intermittent problems usually are not downrange from the wiring, but you might check out your coil, cap, rotor, and all your grounds...

Good luck,
Dan

 

[Poriomania]

Well thanks to all that have responded with advice and suggestions-it is really appreciated. I apologize for not responding sooner but I didnt think people would reply so quickly.

I may have left out a very important part of the puzzle during my initial post which is when it will not fire up = there is no spark. So to recap, the symptoms are:
1.intermittent starting- engine is hot or cold
2. fuel pump and efi relay replaced
3. engine will turn over but will not start
4. when it will not start the check engine light does not flash on as you turn the key to start the engine
5.no spark when it will not start

I think this might change some of the advice offered

It resembles what happened to me a couple of weeks ago. The root problem was the wiring harness at the EGR had gotten hot and shorted out a few wires. The dealership also put in a "fusible link" at the battery. Don't know exactly what that did, but it got it running.

 

[KliersLC]

RT, have you taken one of the ign switches apart on one of these? I haven't, but some switches are mechanically unable to fail like that, particularly the ones with the contacts on the back and the big copper piece that contacts them. On that type of setup the ecu has to get power from the ign switch if the starter is getting power. Other setups have the pansy little internal contacts that theoretically cound break and they also act independently, but I don't know which one the 80 has. Anyhoo, could be the Ign switch, but to isolate it you would have to pull it-testing in the engine compartment leaves room for faulty wiring. How many bananas ya packing iMonster?

Dan (off to the search button)

 

[KliersLC]

AHA!
This should explain some things a bit better, the folks on this thread know more about it than me.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=44550&highlight=main+wiring+harness

 

[RavenTai]

I have removed an ignition switch from a 97LX, I have not taken one apart so I cannto anwser your qwestion. IIRC it was a fairly beefy switch, felt heavy in the hand, I have not heard of anyone having problems with the ignition switch I only mention it becuase it was the only other contact in the poswer suply to the ECU that he had not replaced.

does this picture help you identify what type of switch it is?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Didn't somebody have a problem like this after they got their engine wet from a pressure wash? It turned out to be the connector at the airflow meter on the large intake tube leaving the air cleaner. There's a multi wire connector there with a wire bail that holds it on. He removed it, fired some WD40 in there and reconnected it. Done.

Did your engine get wet lately?

DougM

 

[KliersLC]

I have removed an ignition switch from a 97LX, I have not taken one apart so I cannto anwser your qwestion. IIRC it was a fairly beefy switch, felt heavy in the hand, I have not heard of anyone having problems with the ignition switch I only mention it becuase it was the only other contact in the poswer suply to the ECU that he had not replaced.

does this picture help you identify what type of switch it is?

That looks like the more bullet proof type, If you were to take the black piece off the back it would have a copper bus bar in the shape of a C with either little pressed-in bumps that made the contact or little teeth spaced intermittantly to match up with the contacts on the black portion. That being said, that is merely how it appears to be built, there is a very real possibility(although fairly small) that it is not like that at all. Maybe someday I'll look......but probly not.

Anyhoo, hope you get er fixed.
Dan

 

[Grench]

Compression, fuel & fire

Non starting issues are generally linkable to one of three areas:
Compression, Fuel, Fire

Do you have any codes on the OBDII? If so, the Check Engine Light (CEL) will be on. These are usually a good way to narrow it down as to what you're looking for. Post the codes here, and I'm sure one of the more techie guys than me will know what they're related to.

That said...
Fire/Spark. Have you ever changed the plugs? Plug wires? Rotor & cap? If the rotor is worn it can result in a sometimes start scenario.
Compression. If the engine is turning over and isn't running rough when it does run, then this probably isn't your problem. If you hear it turn over, then your starter motor and flywheel are good. Thats a plus.
Fuel. Changing the fuel pump isn't fun. Have you changed the fuel filter? If you had some deposits in the gas tank that got knocked loose & sucked up, you could just be working those through and may even have to change it twice.

Fuel or fire? From what I've seen of your description, I'm inclined to think fire.

But then, I'm not a pro mechanic.

Good luck on it, you'll have to let us know what you find.