Removing “hard top” to lower windshield for dash pad removal

[VA Mountain FJ40]

I did the searches, read the threads. I have to lower the windshield on my 68 FJ40 hard top to remove and install the dash pad. Seen a couple folks report they were able to change dash pads without dropping the windshield forward over the years, but apparently none of them responded to subsequent requests about “… but HOW did you do that?”, other than “pull upward”. Yeah, that doesn’t work without elaboration… Secrets of the internets.

Dropping the windshield is a bigger deal for me because I have a hard top, and I don’t know how long it’s been since it was off, if ever. Came that way. Now, the threads say you don’t have to completely remove the “hard top”, just unbolt it most of the way back, lift enough to wedge 2x4 pieces underneath until the windshield can be lowered. OK…

OK. So I search MUD on “remove hard top”. Bunch of hits. And it’s all about building hoists, number of assistants, and discussions based on “hard top” meaning fiberglass cap, two walls with windows, and rear hatch wall. Most posts use “hard top” to mean “everything above the tub”: the whole 200+ lb assembly with the long B pillar posts, rear hatch, and all. Can’t find info for removing just the fiberglass cap secured to the top of the walls and rear hatch.

So, instructions for “remove hard top” don’t help. Too many posts use “hard top” and “top” interchangeably but talking about different items. Not the whole above-the-tub subassembly. I need help with “remove fiberglass cap while leaving walls and hatch in place”. It looks simple enough, bunch of M6 10mm bolts. Two or three bolts top of windshield, a couple on A pillar, one or two on the B pillar to remove the piece that goes over top of the front doors, and then unbolt towards the back until the front can be lifted 3” or so supported by 2x4 blocks, and the windshield can be lowered. Sounds simple enough, but this truck loves surprise “Gotcha!” episodes if I don’t research it first.

Well, removing the dash pad looked bone simple. It isnt. If I want to loosen enough of the fiberglass cap to lower the windshield, are my assumptions right? Has anyone else here just raised just the fiberglass hard top cap 3” leaving the walls alone?

Chip
VA Mtn FJ40

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

I do believe that I have answered most of my own questions using improved search terms on MUD. “Fiberglass cap” instead of “hard top”.
I try searching before asking, but I don’t always search the right terms. Struggling to clarify the difference in the previous post gave me new search ideas to try. One worked using “fiberglass cap”. Seems to be mostly answering all my wonders.

So far working from this thread

Thread 'Fiberglass cap removal'

Jul 18, 2013

Does the rear lift window need to be removed to take the cap off my top? I have a 72 so I don't have the barn doors like most of the write up threads on this topic have. I am going to put a new headliner in and perhaps resurface outside. Gutter looks to be in good condition. Top on the outside is really sun beat and chalky feeling.

All the bolts on the sides are out and only one snapped. I feel lucky about that, cap seems to be hanging on in the back.

• flaa1a
• Replies: 49
• Forum: 40- / 55-Series Tech

If I can leave the door top pieces attached to the cap like the guy in the post did that would be useful.

 

[pb4ugo]

I responded in your other post. Here's what I mean by raising the top and using 2x4"s. The 2x4's are long enuff to reach across the tub. I removed the rear doors, and the mounts on the windshield frame. There is a set screw/bolt on the B pillar that needs to be loosened on each side too. There are posts extending down from the top into the tub at the B pillar.

. I wouldn't take the fiberglass cap off. I think that would open up a can of worms.

 

[pb4ugo]

You have a lift hatch on your top so you shouldn't have to remove the hatch. You will probably need another person to help.

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

Here's what I mean by raising the top and using 2x4"s. The 2x4's are long enuff to reach across the tub. I removed the rear doors, and the mounts on the windshield frame. There is a set screw/bolt on the B pillar that needs to be loosened on each side too. There are posts extending down from the top into the tub at the B pillar.

View attachment 3989727

I wouldn't take the fiberglass cap off. I think that would open up a can of worms.

OK, this picture really helped.

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

These pictures made a huge difference because I had a different, wrong idea in my head about what it would look like with the hard top raised up on a 2 x 4, and where that 2 x 4 needed to go. I actually don’t see the 2x4 in your picture, but it looks like right behind the B pillar is the place, yes?

Now it looks much easier than removing the fiberglass cap. A whole lot less fasteners to deal with. Bunch of M6 bolts, right?

Couple fasteners on windshield front… couple fasteners on each A pillar window bow bracket… that’s the front.
Couple fasteners for rear window bow bracket at B pillar. Window bow stays attached to the hard top, right? That’s each side from windshield to B pillar.
Undo tension bolt for hard top leg inside B pillar so the top can lift up …
That leaves the fasteners between the wall base and the tub from the B pillar to rear doors, both sides. That’s each side from B pillar to rear doors.
Open hatch. That’s the back.

Is this process right? Is anything else left holding the hard top assembly (cap walls and hatch) to the tub? Is it ready to be lifted up and shimmed with 2x4?

I really appreciate your tremendous help in understanding the scope and sequence of steps. BTW gorgeous rig you have there.

 

[pb4ugo]

You're pretty much on it. The bolts on the w/s inside at the door header and across the frt. The set screw at the B pillar and the bolts along the top of the tub where the top walls rests. There maybe a wire for the inside light. Originally I used 2- 2x4's. You dont want it to fall off. My 40 is a 75 so it has a rollbar which sort of dictated where the 2x4's went. You want 2x4's long enuff to reach across the top of the tub. Your top is going to be heavy in the rear because of the door. The B pillars rods are probably 10" to 12" and may need some coaxing to break loose. The PO cut mine.

 

[brian]

What different about the pads, that the windshield frame interferes with it?

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

What different about the pads, that the windshield frame interferes with it?

The dash pad and the upper dashboard frame interlock using interlocking tabs and slots.

With the windshield up, you can’t get to the dashboard frame retaining tabs to let the old dash pad loose.
With the windshield down, the upper dashboard frame retainer tabs are accessible and I’ve read here that you can use a flat blade screwdriver to lift the tabs up enough to unlock the engagement with the L shaped retainer clip that is screwed (9 screws) into the back of the dash pad. The dash pad comes off with the retainer clip attached.

Other people wrote that they released the dash pad from the dashboard frame by removing the 9 screws that hold the long L shaped retainer clip to the dash pad to the dashboard frame. THe dash pad comes offf leaving the retainer clip still secured to the dashboard frame.

I borrowed the picture below from another thread whose OP unscrewed the nine fasteners to separate pad from frame, leaving the interlocked retainer attached to the dashboard frame. (Hence the circled “last” screw.) I added the arrows pointing to the dashboard frame retainer tabs that somehow interlock with the 9 screw L shaped dash pad retainer clip.

NOTE: I have not seen this yet in person other than attaching a new L shaped FJ40DASH. COM dash pad retainer clip to my new uninstalled FJ40DASH. COM dash pad — on my work bench. I’ve never yet folded down the windshield on my 68 truck, never seen these tabs and clips in the flesh, and I don’t completely understand how the tabs interlock with the retainer clip slots yet. I am regurgitating accumulated MUD information gathered over several days researching and trying to understand. The pic above doesn’t show specifically how the tabs go into the retainer slots.

The picture above shows the L shaped retainer clip installed on the dash pad. I marked the slots in silver sharpie. The slots are shaped like a tall thin “C” on its back, with the gap facing down and the bent closed part at top.

Is that shallow indentation enough to lock that unit down so hard just by a clip resting in the dimple? From under the dash (pulling out the loosened dash pad) I can see six slots with flat metal plates inside. Seriously, I can’t sort out how they fit together.

Anyone have pictures?

 

[Its me shaneus]

I did the dash pad replacement using the new fj40dash part about a year ago. This on a 1970 40.

Did not take top off or lay windshield down.

Was a little bit of a pain installing but not too difficult. Don’t remember too much other than getting sheet metal lined up and then getting screw holes lined up.

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

Thank you for your reply and your picture. Beautiful truck, and it’s a good way to preview what my new dash will look like if I can manage to get it installed.

So you did it! That is awesome… Thank you for the kindness of your answer.

Each report of a successful installation without dropping the windshield gives me hope.

It’s becoming a religious experience. I have faith that it can be done. Respectable and credible people have testified to it. I believe… I believe, brother!

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

I really do believe it is possible to remove my old raggedy dash and install my new dash pad without lowering the windshield. I still don’t know exactly how that happens yet, but I believe the helpers here who told me that they were able to do it.

They just don’t remember how they did it…

I have a theory.

I’m gonna struggle with this thing. I’m gonna find a way to do it if it can be done, and they say it can be done. I want to be that guy, the one who wants so bad to understand it that he will document and photograph every step. The guy who finally writes up with pictures the procedure to replace the dash pad without dropping the windshield. Maybe earn a little MUD cred…

But that’s not gonna happen.

Seconds after I fasten the last screw, tighten the last knob, and take the last picture of the completed dash remove and install, with the windshield up… I’m getting unexpected visitors.

Toyota Men In Black. That’s right, I said it.

Only a certain number of people on earth are capable of understanding sensitive information. Aliens… UFOs… Jimmy Hoffa… KFC’s 11 herbs and spices… FJ40 dash pad replacement with the windshield up…

The men in black will appear suddenly from nowhere and confront me. Caught red-handed standing next to an installed FJ 40 dash pad, I will confess to carnal pad knowledge. And then they are going to flash that memory nebulizer thing at me…

60 seconds later I suddenly find myself alone in the shop, happy about a beautiful new FJ 40 dash pad in place, but… can’t… remember… quite how I got it there. Hum… But but I’m happy, and the dash is installed. Life is good.

Oh, and all the dash replacement pictures I took have been replaced with alternating images of Tommy Lee Jones and Kiichiro Toyoda in dark glasses and black TeK logo coveralls.

It’s kind of a wild theory. Probably not true.

But I plan to start slowly cutting apart the sad raggedy old dash pad on my truck today. Perhaps I will find a way remove the old pad and snap and screw the new one in place.

You can count on me updating this MUD dashboard pad thread with big pictures of me smiling next to a beautifully installed new dash pad in the truck with the windshield up.

… and if I can’t remember how it happened, well, I did have a theory…

.

 

[charliemeyer007]

Usually if things go south and are a lot of trouble or stuff gets broken or ruined I remember the issues. If its more or less a peace of cake other than maybe a stripped screw head or requires some custom bent wrench / speciality tool I don't bother to waste brain cells on it. Surelock Homes said brain capacity or storage was limited, don't take up space with useless data - learn where and how to look things up.

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

Let’s look at what is underneath the dash pad. Let’s start with the hard stuff inside the dash pad that we cannot see..

Below is the dash pad support (99). It is welded to the FJ 40. It goes inside the clamshell of the dash pad (3).

Just past the finger and just before the windshield base is the top of a retainer clip that is part of the dash pad support (99).

The dash pad retainer bracket (13) slides between the dash support (99) and the six clips across the back of the welded dash support .
Picture from FJ40DASH.COM.

Below is a new FJ40DASH.COM upper dash pad(3) and upper dash retainer clip (13). They are joined together by nine screws (24). The tabs on the dash retainer clip (13) are circled in silver. There are six punched out tabs in the retainer bracket. They interlock inward with the six clip openings in the welded dash base (99).

3 is the upper dash pad.
13 is the upper dash retainer clip L bracket with six slots.
24 is the nine screws that fasten 13 to 3.
99 is the welded dash pad support with six tabs.
Diagram from SOR.

View attachment 3990699

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

If its more or less a peace of cake .., I don't bother to waste brain cells on it.

Totally get this. And no intention of throwing shade at the people trying to help me.

Please don’t confuse my inappropriate mirth with personal complaints. I apologize if I offended…

 

[charliemeyer007]

I'm good. I been at this mechanicing for a long time. Way back in the day you had to draw pic's because the film pic's might not come out weeks later when you got it developed. Cell phone pic's and vids are great - you know right away if you got the important details captured properly. Then there is digital storage management - 2 copies each in different medias and something offsite

 

[Its me shaneus]

I remember the metal clips in the dash pad being hard to get loose when taking off old pad and getting the new ones lined up and right going back together with new pad.

Not impossible, but enough to make anyone who walked up on me wonder where I had ever heard such language. May have spread the lips on the new dash pad clips a little with a screwdriver to help with installing.

Still, all in all about 90 minutes would be my guess from start to finish. And this included a trip to true value for a tap and screws. The screw just inboard of the glove box had gotten wet and rusty. The screw snapped on trying to remove and I had to drill out and run tap in. Managed to save enough material that original screw size worked again. Anti seized all if them on installation.

Thats as much as I remember, no men in black involved. Would’ve smacked him at that moment!

Get in there and rip and tear. Worst case you gotta little fight. It isnt a part thats gonna stop you from driving to work if you had to. (This said as someone who’s driven to work, in the rain, with windshield frame in the shop getting painted).

 

[firemanj92]

I really do believe it is possible to remove my old raggedy dash and install my new dash pad without lowering the windshield. I still don’t know exactly how that happens yet, but I believe the helpers here who told me that they were able to do it.

They just don’t remember how they did it…

I have a theory.

I’m gonna struggle with this thing. I’m gonna find a way to do it if it can be done, and they say it can be done. I want to be that guy, the one who wants so bad to understand it that he will document and photograph every step. The guy who finally writes up with pictures the procedure to replace the dash pad without dropping the windshield. Maybe earn a little MUD cred…

But that’s not gonna happen.

Seconds after I fasten the last screw, tighten the last knob, and take the last picture of the completed dash remove and install, with the windshield up… I’m getting unexpected visitors.

Toyota Men In Black. That’s right, I said it.

Only a certain number of people on earth are capable of understanding sensitive information. Aliens… UFOs… Jimmy Hoffa… KFC’s 11 herbs and spices… FJ40 dash pad replacement with the windshield up…

The men in black will appear suddenly from nowhere and confront me. Caught red-handed standing next to an installed FJ 40 dash pad, I will confess to carnal pad knowledge. And then they are going to flash that memory nebulizer thing at me…

60 seconds later I suddenly find myself alone in the shop, happy about a beautiful new FJ 40 dash pad in place, but… can’t… remember… quite how I got it there. Hum… But but I’m happy, and the dash is installed. Life is good.

Oh, and all the dash replacement pictures I took have been replaced with alternating images of Tommy Lee Jones and Kiichiro Toyoda in dark glasses and black TeK logo coveralls.

It’s kind of a wild theory. Probably not true.

But I plan to start slowly cutting apart the sad raggedy old dash pad on my truck today. Perhaps I will find a way remove the old pad and snap and screw the new one in place.

You can count on me updating this MUD dashboard pad thread with big pictures of me smiling next to a beautifully installed new dash pad in the truck with the windshield up.

… and if I can’t remember how it happened, well, I did have a theory…

View attachment 3990689






.

I've replaced the dash pad with an new OE one without the windshield down. Took a long flat (screw driver/putty knife) and I was able to pry the 6/8 tabs away from the windshield after removing the lower screws/windshield hold down knobs. Took a little time, curse words, and squished knuckles but no more than an hour or less but nod difficult.

 

[timmyisinthewell]

These pics may not help as you have a '68 and they are from my jan '72. The same two mountings brackets for the dash pad show on my 80's vintage Toyota microfiche as being used from 03/69 to 07/80. Maybe these brackets were used earlier as well. There are no other clips or fasteners in this area, other than the nine screws holding the L bracket to the pad and the screws installed from the front.

 

[VA Mountain FJ40]

So… I learned some things today …
You guys were not lying.

Started with this…

And now I’ve got this…