Rear Fog Light Switch??? (1 Viewer)

[ToyotaMatt]

I suspect fog lights integrated into the standard lighting eventually ran afoul of tighter regulations. While a all-in-one solution looks cleaner in terms of style and would be likely cheaper to manufacture, when overtaking such a vehicle in the fog it will not give you the depth perception that a separate lamp mounted apart from the tail lighting will.

i agree here too ,

wouldn't a driver have there full head lamps ON Foggy driving conditions in general ?

so , hence the rear RED running lights would be On as well , so how would a additional 194 peanut bulb ( 40 series speaking ) or a #67 / #89 Gum-Ball bayonet twist-lock ( same socket as a #1156 ) make any additional difference ?

would the 4th additional rear fog bulb sharing the Tail / Brake Red Lenses chamber be ON by it self ever ? , so far the ( 40 Series answer is YES ) , but i do not know how that occurs / what device turns it on when the headlamp pull switch is in the OFF / fully pushed in position ?

the above HJ60 Finland Spec. does have a stand alone Rear Fog push button ON = push-lock-in / OFF = push-un-lock-out ....

the VX 80 series above has a Horizonal rear fog icon switch also stand alone too ....

now those stand alone red lens lamps look pretty functional for a Foggy windy road if some prissy Range Rover comes barreling down the Moore switch backs up on his tail ...........

 

[HRTROB]

Yeah, something like that. A more typical install uses just one rear red fog light. IIRC, on the Continent where they drive on the right side of the road, the single lamp will be on the left side of the vehicle's rear. This provides some degree of orientation so overtaking vehicles will pass on the left, versusd slewing around to the right (a really bad idea in the fog.)
In the UK, to compensate for their odd habit of driving on the left, the rear fog light is located on the right rear of the vehicle, encouraging overtaking vehicles to pass on the right.

For a vehicle like a Land Cruiser that gets around internationally more than most, a dual lamp configuration makes some sense, so I'm guessing that's what we're seeing here. If it was my truck, I'd wire in a switch that allows the proper side fog light to llluminate according to whose road system orientation is being used.

The main purpose of rear fog lights is to make you visible to the cars behind, not show which side the cars behind can pass. That’s why there are cars with center mounted rear fog lights from the factory like the GT86, GR86, Mini Coopers, WRX’s, Supra.

 

[greentruck]

The main purpose of rear fog lights is to make you visible to the cars behind, not show which side the cars behind can pass. That’s why there are cars with center mounted rear fog lights from the factory like the GT86, GR86, Mini Coopers, WRX’s, Supra.

I think you misread me - or haven't driven much in the fog, Lanekeeoing can be really difficult in fog, as well as perception about closing speed if you do overtake someone.

In the last 50 years, roads in North American typically have painted lines on the outside edge of the pavement, as well as in the middle of the road. These outer lines are called, appropriately enough, fog lines. These help, but in really thick fog can be distracting, so that you are looking down and to the right, instead of mostly straight ahead where something, most likely a vehicle going in the same dire4ction as you, might be lurking in the mist.

The offset and brightness of the rear foglight directs drivers attention straight ahead, while at the same time giving the overtaking driver some idea if the driver ahead has been able to maintain proper lanekeeping. When framed by the center and fog lines, this does give the driver coming up behind a good idea of what challenges they face in passing, but also help with maintaining an appropriate following distance by combining where data coming in from several sources to hold an appropriate following distance because of how the rear foglight. works in relation to the standard vehicle lighting.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

.

.

.

.

.

 

[HRTROB]

I think you misread me - or haven't driven much in the fog, Lanekeeoing can be really difficult in fog, as well as perception about closing speed if you do overtake someone.

In the last 50 years, roads in North American typically have painted lines on the outside edge of the pavement, as well as in the middle of the road. These outer lines are called, appropriately enough, fog lines. These help, but in really thick fog can be distracting, so that you are looking down and to the right, instead of mostly straight ahead where something, most likely a vehicle going in the same dire4ction as you, might be lurking in the mist.

The offset and brightness of the rear foglight directs drivers attention straight ahead, while at the same time giving the overtaking driver some idea if the driver ahead has been able to maintain proper lanekeeping. When framed by the center and fog lines, this does give the driver coming up behind a good idea of what challenges they face in passing, but also help with maintaining an appropriate following distance by combining where data coming in from several sources to hold an appropriate following distance because of how the rear foglight. works in relation to the standard vehicle lighting.

I get your point about having one rear fog to the side of the opposite lane can aid in overtaking. I’m just saying that that’s not the main purpose. If it was then they wouldn’t allow cars to have center mounted rear fog lights. One could also argue that having two is better since you are able to judge the width (and thus distance) of the vehicle in front more accurately. And yes, I’ve driven in the fog

 

[greentruck]

Well, overtaking was ONE of my points. However, my main point was how the orientation of the lights provides multiple cues to aid drivers driving in fog more generally, not simply for passing.

As for the logic of center mounted rear fog lights, based on the examples you gave, I suspect this has more to do the limited area in which to mount these lights due to these car's designs.. They are all relatively narrow and low cars. Their center, high mounted fog lights are exceptions to the general aim of the regulations because the place that would otherwise be chosen to mount them on the lower rear part of the car is not nearly as effective as the center high mounted lights in these exceptions to the general rule.

 

[HRTROB]

Well, overtaking was ONE of my points. However, my main point was how the orientation of the lights provides multiple cues to aid drivers driving in fog more generally, not simply for passing.

As for the logic of center mounted rear fog lights, based on the examples you gave, I suspect this has more to do the limited area in which to mount these lights due to these car's designs.. They are all relatively narrow and low cars. Their center, high mounted fog lights are exceptions to the general aim of the regulations because the place that would otherwise be chosen to mount them on the lower rear part of the car is not nearly as effective as the center high mounted lights in these exceptions to the general rule.

The center mounted rear fog lights aren’t exclusive to “narrow and low” cars, they’re also used in SUVs. Also, all the examples I mentioned (Supra, GT86, GR86, Minis) have the center rear fogs mounted way down close to the ground probably so that they’re a good distance from the third brake light

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Does anyone have a EU Market or Saudi-Spec. Region paper print media factory glove box owners manual in-hand as-in no sketchy silly PDF’s ….?

I would think very very certain that the whole Rear-Fog Lamps / Lamp ..

- description
- why to use
- when to use
- how to safely use
- etc ….

I don’t mention a Japan market above because I have a few various FSM’s and it’s super super hard to translate any alpha or numerical Kanji ….?

All my EU spec. any paper print media anything , yes the text words are in Dutch or
German or Italian ….

But 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ….are just that ….

If we have a bi-lingual Kanji - English fellow member among us here ?

then that glove box owners manual I think certain will have the most comprehensive details that matter and matter do details …


I wonder who conjured up the whole rear fog lamps concept in the first place ?

If this novel idea did originate in Japan ?

Then OEM KOITo is my Target for sure …

Somewhere else other then in Japan ..?

…

 

[ToyotaMatt]

I suppose this will have to do for now ….
.

 

[HRTROB]

@ToyotaMatt

On the subject of rear fog light switches, I noticed the ones in the photos you posted are not ideal (2 way). Usually rear fog light switches are momentary contact coupled with a latching relay or in newer cars, the light ECU or body module. This is to make sure the rear fog light turns off and stays off when you switch the running lights off and are not activated inadvertently the next time you turn the running lights on.

 

[HRTROB]

Does anyone have a EU Market or Saudi-Spec. Region paper print media factory glove box owners manual in-hand as-in no sketchy silly PDF’s ….?

I would think very very certain that the whole Rear-Fog Lamps / Lamp ..

- description
- why to use
- when to use
- how to safely use
- etc ….

I don’t mention a Japan market above because I have a few various FSM’s and it’s super super hard to translate any alpha or numerical Kanji ….?

All my EU spec. any paper print media anything , yes the text words are in Dutch or
German or Italian ….

But 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ….are just that ….

If we have a bi-lingual Kanji - English fellow member among us here ?

then that glove box owners manual I think certain will have the most comprehensive details that matter and matter do details …


I wonder who conjured up the whole rear fog lamps concept in the first place ?

If this novel idea did originate in Japan ?

Then OEM KOITo is my Target for sure …

Somewhere else other then in Japan ..?

…

Not a Land Cruiser but these are from the owners manual of my BMW and GT86

 

[gilmorneau]

Does anyone have a EU Market or Saudi-Spec. Region paper print media factory glove box owners manual in-hand as-in no sketchy silly PDF’s ….?

Here ya' go:

Not as informative as you were hoping--that's the only reference to rear fog lights in the Owner's Manual.

Here are the rear fog lights on my HDJ80:

 

[greentruck]

The center mounted rear fog lights aren’t exclusive to “narrow and low” cars, they’re also used in SUVs. Also, all the examples I mentioned (Supra, GT86, GR86, Minis) have the center rear fogs mounted way down close to the ground probably so that they’re a good distance from the third brake light

View attachment 3741512
View attachment 3741514
View attachment 3741511
View attachment 3741515
View attachment 3741552

We both should remember that regulations change for various reasons and not all countries think along the same lines...so. And my major experience with these things was a half century ago in Germany, where both the fog and regulation are legendary. Looking at these examples, the last three strike me as maybe not being fog lights, but part of that recent fashion among sporty street car designers to imitate similar lights on F1 cars. Maybe they're fog lights, too, but just wanted to mention that as a potential point of confusion.

 

[greentruck]

I suppose this will have to do for now ….
.

I suspect, based on the mention of 2013, that was a likely date when a regulatory change brought about the conversion to the dual rear fog light arrangement - at least for the markets this video was aimed at.

 

[greentruck]

Does anyone have a EU Market or Saudi-Spec. Region paper print media factory glove box owners manual in-hand as-in no sketchy silly PDF’s ….?

I would think very very certain that the whole Rear-Fog Lamps / Lamp ..

- description
- why to use
- when to use
- how to safely use
- etc ….

I don’t mention a Japan market above because I have a few various FSM’s and it’s super super hard to translate any alpha or numerical Kanji ….?

All my EU spec. any paper print media anything , yes the text words are in Dutch or
German or Italian ….

But 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ….are just that ….

If we have a bi-lingual Kanji - English fellow member among us here ?

then that glove box owners manual I think certain will have the most comprehensive details that matter and matter do details …


I wonder who conjured up the whole rear fog lamps concept in the first place ?

If this novel idea did originate in Japan ?

Then OEM KOITo is my Target for sure …

Somewhere else other then in Japan ..?

…

If you have a file or image you can send, I can have my wife look it over. She speaks Japanese at the native level. Good enough that she can make a AirBnB res there on the phone, then show up and the hosts are surprised it's a white woman.

As for the invention Q, it could have been Japan, but at least as likely either Germany or the UK

 

[ToyotaMatt]

@ToyotaMatt

On the subject of rear fog light switches, I noticed the ones in the photos you posted are not ideal (2 way). Usually rear fog light switches are momentary contact coupled with a latching relay or in newer cars, the light ECU or body module. This is to make sure the rear fog light turns off and stays off when you switch the running lights off and are not activated inadvertently the next time you turn the running lights on.

i am not a phan of any momentary switches in my personal 2005 and all others older family fleet .....

i like the click / un-click and the more traditional rocker snap-tone you also feel in your finger tips as it cracks so so very crisp ..

i have only ever sourced the double bulbs , style click type SUB-TANK 80 series switches over the years for folks here on MUD , you see below ...

with my 100% now LED everything down to my A/C push click Color Temperature buttons , i have not found the need to run any relays ....yet


good point on the KEY OFF / Now Rear Fogs Off ...... i did noy know that was a thing now ......


thanks

.
—————————————————-

a double-bulb switch is far far less common then the single-bulb or no-bulb ones …

this one below I have been tinkering with for a while now , it is a good OEM base platform to run wild with its full-on
potential …… both horizontal and vertically speaking .

Much like the vertical front fog below it …

.

 

[HRTROB]

Looking at these examples, the last three strike me as maybe not being fog lights, but part of that recent fashion among sporty street car designers to imitate similar lights on F1 cars. Maybe they're fog lights, too, but just wanted to mention that as a potential point of confusion.

Yes they are indeed rear fog lights, as can be seen in the photo of the manual in my previous post. I do agree that they add a sporty look to a car, but nevertheless they are also used on SUVs and even minivans

 

[bfosterelli]

For those who haven't owned modern European vehicles w/ rear fog lights, I can tell you I've owned vehicles with one side illuminated, and both sides illuminated, depending on the year and manufacturer (all 2017+). For anyone who lives somewhere with frequent or occasional dense fog, this safety feature is a nice thing to have - and is very effective in providing a significant increase in visibility of your vehicle for the person approaching or following you from the rear.

I'll definitely be adding a couple of small LED sockets into my OEM tail lamp housings and wiring in a switch (momentary switch w/ relay connected to my parking lamp circuit so they deactivate when normal lamps are turned off - in case I forget!).