Real Time Help 3FE power!!! (1 Viewer)

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Well, it sounds like a plugged catalytic converter but it stands to reason that if it ran good prior to your ministrations and does not run good following your work, something you did has caused the new problem.

If it is true that all is well and correct with the basic timing (you don't by chance use a timing light with an advancer built in do you, and perhaps neglected to zero it?), then you'll have to look to your "valve job" which most have taken to mean "valve adjustment".

Incorrectly adjusted valve clearances affect timing. They also can severely impact engine performance, particularly at higher rpm levels. The operation requires the very careful positioning of each piston and related valve gear before any measurement or adjustment may be accurately done. To be frank your description of your having done this job has an offhand, even cavalier character which I would not expect from a person who has only just completed the task for the first time. It is a serious and difficult proposition to adjust the valves correctly even for an experienced person despite the oft-heard almost flippant descriptions of the doing of the job.

All of this said I hope that you can accept that there is a possibility of an error of performance by you and go back to examine your previous efforts, hopefully with FSM in hand. There is no shame in going back and you should know that if it is the case that you have erred you are far from the first to do so, so far in fact that should you encounter anyone who would deny having ever had to redo a job of auto repair you would be safe in calling him or her a liar, if the person had ever actually attempted such a thing.

Honk,
Your criticism is well taken. In some message boards I have frequenced, I've noticed that people will flame out, as it were. The objective of this and other forums is to exchange info and help other, which you and the other people have done. With that said here's the update.

Actually, I thought my skills in valve adjustment were sufficient for this engine. I stand corrected. As of yesterday at 10am the FSM was on order with Toyota Motor Sales. A friend is faxing me the valve adjustment section from his FSM and I will be asking for other whom have an experinced knowledge about the valve adjustment for assistence.

In the meantime, I've taken the Cruiser to a dealer ship for their diagnosis. They basically told me that that valve adjustment was messing up and that it needed to be redone. They did say that the timing was correct with no other problems, i.e. vaccum leaks etc.

Thanks for the help. I'll give an update tomorrow after adjusting the valves again.

Sincerely,
Jim

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Okay. I had a chance to do the second valve adjustment for the engine. Result, only very minor adjustments, nothing way out of spec. I did the valve adj. per the FSM confirming that the compression/TDC has the I/E valve on number 1 cylinder loose.

Now, here are some results of test drives.

Drive 1:
Conditions:
Timing: 7º BTDC
Valve lash: I=.008 E=.014 (hot)
Idle: at 650 rpm's
Idle screw: 1/2 turn from fully closed (fully close then back off 1/2 turn)
New plugs.

Results:
Some popping in the air box when reving the engine in park.
When test driving, 45% of full power. step on the gas and it does not want to go or shift into next gear.
Spark plugs: cylinders 1 and 6 were white, 2,3,4,5 all had signs of browning on the ceramic insulator.

Drive 2:
Conditions:
Timing: 7º BTDC
Valve lash: I=.008 E=.014 (hot)
Idle: at 1200 rpm's
Idle screw: five to six full turns out.
New plugs.

Results:
No popping int he air box when reving the engine in park.
When test driving, 65% of full power. step on the gas and it goes better than before but still have s***ing problems.
Spark Plugs: cylinders 1 and 6 still white, 2,3,4,5 all had signs of browning on the ceramic insulator.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,Jim.

 

[davisdrafting]

Do you have a compression tester? if so do a dry then wet compression test
and post results. This will verify you don’t have an over tight valve lashing.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Do you have a compression tester? if so do a dry then wet compression test
and post results. This will verify you don’t have an over tight valve lashing.

Yes, I did a compression test. Dry only for now. The result was 150psi across all cylinders.

 

[landtank]

have you double checked the spark plug wiring order? Sounds like 2 might be out of position.

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Just a wag here but it sounds like the symptoms are worse in drive than in park,
did you have to move the tranny kick down cable???
is it back in its proper adjustment??
if the cable is too far out it will not change out of gears or engage the gears too early causing what you describe.
again just a Wag.
Dave

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

have you double checked the spark plug wiring order? Sounds like 2 might be out of position.

Yes, I check this type of common mistake. I verified that they were all lined up to the proper cylinder. But, I will check one more time, not a bad idea.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Just a wag here but it sounds like the symptoms are worse in drive than in park,
did you have to move the tranny kick down cable???
is it back in its proper adjustment??
if the cable is too far out it will not change out of gears or engage the gears too early causing what you describe.
again just a Wag.
Dave

PHAEDRUS,
Well actually I played with this also, but the result did not fix the problem so I set it back to the original position.

The same problem still persists though. The engine just does not feel like it has any power, almost like one or two cylinder are not combusting.

Still toubleshoot,
Jim

 

[Aseif007]

Have you tested your ignition? When you were doing the valve adjustment, did you happen to bump the starter without the wire from the coil to the cap removed (or only the cap end removed)? And have you re-done the valve job? Did you happen to accidentally adjust the TPS? Do you have a vacuum diagram to check the hoses? So you don't think you are one tooth off with the distributor? Just some thoughts.

 

[KliersLC]

Not an expert on the 3fe, but I know that on an I6 if you are not firing a cylinder it will shake really bad. You said it revs fine in park and idles fine but you can't go down the road worth a darn, did you forget to release the ebrake , Seriously though, this could be a coincidence with a drivetrain problem. The only other thing that I can think of that hasn't been stated already is air restriction. Good luck
Dan

 

[landtank]

Yes, I check this type of common mistake. I verified that they were all lined up to the proper cylinder. But, I will check one more time, not a bad idea.

I've done this twice now and both times it was at the distributor where I goofed up the order.

 

[davisdrafting]

Never mind the wet comp. test your fine, that eliminates
any tight valve problems, I was just wondering with the popping
in the air box. Check your hose from mass-airflow to throttle body
for cracks.

To me it sounds like an ignition problem, I would check plug wires, firing order
and try adjusting the static timing by ear, rev your motor to about 1K or so at a
constant RPM and turn the distributor slowly back and forth until you hear the
RPM’s change to a higher peak RPM. This will most likely leave you slightly
retarded, “well not you personally” then rev quickly if it stumbles adjust
timing again.

 

[honk]

Is there any way to remove or bypass the catalytic converter, if there is one?

You're running short of things to check.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Is there any way to remove or bypass the catalytic converter, if there is one?

You're running short of things to check.

Honk,
Yes, I can take the cats off and test that way. Or I can gutt them out and not run them at all.
Why do you think the cats are a problem? What would cause them to clogg up?
I did notice that after I took the rig home from the Toyota dealership on Tuesday the exhaust cooling fan engaged immediately upon engine shut down.

Also, when I took the spark plugs out that night, number 1 and 6 (New) spark plug's ceramic insulator was not discolored unlike number 2,3,4,5. These had light brown coloration on the insulator.

Jimmy.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Never mind the wet comp. test your fine, that eliminates
any tight valve problems, I was just wondering with the popping
in the air box. Check your hose from mass-airflow to throttle body
for cracks.

To me it sounds like an ignition problem, I would check plug wires, firing order
and try adjusting the static timing by ear, rev your motor to about 1K or so at a constant RPM and turn the distributor slowly back and forth until you hear the
RPM’s change to a higher peak RPM. This will most likely leave you slightly
retarded, “well not you personally” then rev quickly if it stumbles adjust
timing again.

I did an ohms test of all the wires, all consistence @ 5.5. Firing order is okay. 1,5,3,6,2,4. The disturbate cap has numbers on them and the wire do to. I'll try your suggestion on the timing.

 

[davisdrafting]

"Also, when I took the spark plugs out that night, number 1 and 6 (New) spark plug's ceramic insulator was not discolored unlike number 2,3,4,5. These had light brown coloration on the insulator."




test for spark at cyl. #1 & 6
if you have spark it’s a fuel
problem. check injectors at
1&6 and signal to injectors.

sparkplugs are a excellent way
to check an tune your engine.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Update for Everyone who is watching:

First davisdrafting: I tested tha spark at 1 and 6, the spark is there. Used a engine steathascope and listened for all injector's to fire, no problem they are.

Well,
I finally got the rig to run the way it ran prior to taking it apart. This does not necessarily mean that it's running optimally. Here's what I did to fix (Special thanks to my friend that was a fresh pair of eyes on the situtaion.)

The engine was at TDC (compression) and the mark on the flywheel lined up accordingly.
The plugs and wire and firing order was(were) all correct.
As per the instruction in the FSM (one page that I had) I put the dist. back in.
I heated the engine to operational temp and started the timing.
With my Sears timing light (dial advance) I put the lead on #1 cylinder and concected to the battery.
At this point the timing was correctly set.
I shock the light to the view hole and set to 7º BTC.

Then I gave the engine a rev, backfiring occured and engine HP was to be judged at 40% with a driving test.

Now then, next I advance the distr. to 15º, ran better. Used the timing light to find the 15º.
Then moved the distr. for more advance. At this piont the timing light stated 30º BTC and the timing mark was not present in the view hole, however the rig ran the same as before I did the maintenance.

At this piont, I'm really confused. In my mind the engine is not timed properly but it's running like before.

I'll be talking with M.Smythe from our club tonight as he has a good working knowledge of the 3FE engine.

Please let me know what you think, or maybe share as to this problem.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[davisdrafting]

This doesn’t add up, you stated earlier it was backfiring
out the intake, now you “advanced” the timing and it
runs better? are you sure you “advanced it?

I’m still concerned about the lack of discoloration on your
plugs, what do they look like now?

 

[robbie]

There is actually two types of marks on the fly wheel, one that is TDC and one that is 7 degrees BTDC. The little ball is the 7 degrees BTDC and two little dots that sit one on top of each other is the TDC. So what are you calling the TDC mark? if it is the ball you need to find the two little dots. Also if the TPS is not working at this time it will create some of the similar problems. Not being able to time the engine right is one of them. It sounds like you have a timeing issue, casue by one of these simple problems. Hope this helps. robbie