RADIATOR FAN FZJ80 - long

[alaskacruiser]

SUMO- just a note that your objective and scientific approach to this is appreciated. Please keep us up to date on your findings!

 

[cruiserdan]

I too am open to improvements.


What I really want you to do is quit messing with the fan for now and work on fuel management...

 

[SUMOTOY]

Talk to AZ people with superchargers installed on mostly 93/94 trucks.

There should be tons of post on here about that, as well as the old SOR forum and 80 series list.

Ok, well it's not here. A couple threads on making sure the cooling system is up to snuff. RT guage mod. And this one were on comes up...

I'm specifically looking to cooling issues running the TRD specified fan vs others. I found Dan's posts, but no others.

I'm also quite sure that in severe duty situations that I read about, high ambient temps, towing, etc, changing to a lower rpm fan with more blades could help keep the radiator cooler. Change the running rpm, that might not hold true anymore.

In the meantime, I'll keep hunting for the answer. The good news is, I can do a lot of testing on the POS radiator that's in my truck now. I'd much rather get all the data, before I give my hood to the rotozip and spoil all the fun.

Dan, regarding fuel, I suspect you are getting pinging from a combination of heat and fuel. The cheapest way to address that would be to add a monster oil cooler. You are cooling those pistons right where the pinging is occuring. You might even be able to delete the meth you're on (Project: FJ80 detox)

SJ

 

[cruiserdan]

I am of the opinion it needs more fuel. When the methanol kicks in I can "feel", in the seat of my pants, the engine build more power, especially when my smaller pulley is in play.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I am of the opinion it needs more fuel. When the methanol kicks in I can "feel", in the seat of my pants, the engine build more power, especially when my smaller pulley is in play.

Depends on what is causing the kick. Methanol allows lower octane fuel, or a leaner mixture to be run because it effectively increases octane. At 6-8psi, I suspect you are feeling the benefits of lower inlet temps, head, exhaust, etc. Lower inlet temps are a huge benefit to supercharger heat guns.

Dan, I'm not convinced you aren't dealing with heat management issues here. If I was in a hot clime, or driving in hot conditions, I'd make sure my temps never climbed, underhood or under valve cover. Underhood can be addressed by venting. Under valve cover can be addressed with a variety of creative cooling, but the very first would be taking all the stress off the thermo efficiency of the motor itself. That can't be done with 'just' a radiator fan swap. Jumping from a fan blade change to meth inj, is a really big jump, all else being equal. Meth should be the optimization, after all the other avenues have been exhausted (scuze the pun)

Remember too, that air cleaner sits right next to the hot gun and exhaust manifold.

SJ

 

[cruiserdan]

Well,

It seems to me that you already have the plan in mind. Since you have already played this game several times and I am a newbie, I think you should proceed and determine exactly what needs to be done. We have the same induction system (flapper) and most importantly the same color vehicle... Therefore I can just copy you and save myself a lot of heartburn...





Before everybody makes fun of me, color does matter. You see as far as heat-soak is concerned we have an apples-to-apples comparrison. A white trick and a dark green truck would not act the same way. And you thought I was just having fun.....:hillbilly

 

[SUMOTOY]

In 20 years, I can't say I've ever started a fix recommendation with:
"Sir you need to cut back on your Meth"

I really am a newbie to this forum I guess...

SJ

 

[cruiserdan]

LOL!....:hillbilly

 

[Rainy Day FZJ]

No more sudafed for you Dan!

 

[re_guderian]

Talk to AZ people with superchargers installed on mostly 93/94 trucks.

There should be tons of post on here about that, as well as the old SOR forum and 80 series list.

I don't have a SC, and I don't rev my engine to 5K RPM, but I do worry about heat, both wheeling here in the summer, and at the end of runs in our concrete slot-canyons called freeways where ambient temps can easily exceed 125 in the summer. I have had my AC cutout, even with a new VC in the summer. I find the debate interesting, though limited to few applications (SC's, insane RPM's). I'd rather put vents in the hood, but what do I know?

 

[Photoman]

SUMOTOY,

I think you said you read all the posts on fans so if you already read this testing I did then sorry for the repost. Good luck.

Bill

 

[SUMOTOY]

SUMOTOY,

I think you said you read all the posts on fans so if you already read this testing I did then sorry for the repost. Good luck.

Bill

Bill,
Yes I did see your awesome posts and followed the thread, but I didn't see a lot of conclusions in it. I really enjoyed the setup and methodology, though I'd rather use the actual truck as a test bed at higher rpm's. Data and conclusions?

A couple of comments following this thread... Ringed fans (or shrouded fans technically speaking) usually don't use shrouds, I would be interested to see what the results would be without one.

I would expect a stock fan to put out the highest output at low rpm's. Unfortunately for us all, my empirical testing would indicate that the engine (drive) rpm (x VC factor) is 5000 for failure, not necessarily cooling. My personal belief is that both fans operating in the 3000rpm range should prove to be roughly the same in terms of output. The one with more blades will have more CFM flow at lower rpm, the one with less blades will have more CFM at higher rpm.

It might also be interesting to see what the vacuum is at the front of the radiator and compare vacuum to flow. I'm pretty sure this relationship would give a good indicator that ram air on the front of the radiator might reduce fan flex, certainly at higher vehicle speeds.

Nice work dude! Glad you reposted it.


Scott Justusson

SJ

 

[SUMOTOY]

I don't have a SC, and I don't rev my engine to 5K RPM, but I do worry about heat, both wheeling here in the summer, and at the end of runs in our concrete slot-canyons called freeways where ambient temps can easily exceed 125 in the summer. I have had my AC cutout, even with a new VC in the summer. I find the debate interesting, though limited to few applications (SC's, insane RPM's). I'd rather put vents in the hood, but what do I know?

Let's not forget that the stock fan moves a lot of air at low rpms. If it's not enough to cool your truck, then cut holes in hood using the same guidelines as that jeep dude link I posted, that's pretty much where you will find the heat in most stepped hoods. If you have the A/C cutting out regularly after that cheap fix, an oil cooler will be your best addition.

For really agressive cooling, you can put the oil cooler in front of the radiator. For moderate, you can slide some plastic behind it to block the airflow. For very little cooling, you can slide plastic in front of the cooler to block aiflow.

The real trick IMO/E, is to make the stock radiator cooling system a reserve to a really good oil cooling system. With piston squirters from the factory on the 80, this is very easy to do

HTH

Scott Justusson

 

[desmocruiser]

Wake me up when the fuel mgt is optimized and the oil is cool.
I definitely need those improvements! Look forward to hearing the results !

 

[SUMOTOY]

Followup

SUMOTOY,

I think you said you read all the posts on fans so if you already read this testing I did then sorry for the repost. Good luck.

Bill

Bill,
I studied that thread in more detail (love those headlights mounted)... A couple of things come to mind.

"Erratic airflow" and "negative pressure zones". You did a great job of sealing off the shroud. But the shroud attaches to a radiator = missing. Specifically, a radiator by design creates laminar airflow, changes the vortex within the shroud, and causes fan blade deformation due to pressure differential between shrouded air and unshrouded air (See Justusson, et. al prior posts). Also, pressure on the front side of the radiator is only Po (ambient) when vehcile is not moving. To simulate a 45mph flow situation, you'd need to put a blower fan on the other side.

To 'just' test 2 fan blades as you appear to in your test, don't use a shroud, use the shroud opening circle only. If you are going to use the shroud, plunk a radiator and condenser in front of it.

I also suggest a search of ebay for some antique steel body armor.

Still, a MacGyver Silver Cross award for the rig.

SJ

 

[SUMOTOY]

Wake me up when the fuel mgt is optimized and the oil is cool.
I definitely need those improvements! Look forward to hearing the results !

Another thread I will take on when I get there. I suspect once I find that fuel fix, you'll also find me in the vendor section.

Before I start these other threads, I need to be able to consistently achieve 5000rpm without visiting my radiator shop?

SJ

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

16361-65020. 94-95 3.0 V6 truck, 4Runner, T100.

CDan
Good morning sir.
I am almost complete with the engine reliability and complete replacement of the cooling system in my 97 80 series, all gates green stripe or factory with breeze clamps.

Everything is new however I have not order a fan to go to the new aisin fan clutch.

I see in a post you recommended the 16361-65020. 94-95 3.0 V6 truck, 4Runner, T100.

Is the above fan better than the fj62 fan I have read about? Thanks as always.

 

[Tools R Us]

CDan
Good morning sir.
I am almost complete with the engine reliability and complete replacement of the cooling system in my 97 80 series, all gates green stripe or factory with breeze clamps.

Everything is new however I have not order a fan to go to the new aisin fan clutch.

I see in a post you recommended the 16361-65020. 94-95 3.0 V6 truck, 4Runner, T100.

Is the above fan better than the fj62 fan I have read about? Thanks as always.

Do you have a supercharger? Haven't found anything that beats the stock fan, but it's a bit of a challenge to fit on S/C motors.

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

Do you have a supercharger? Haven't found anything that beats the stock fan, but it's a bit of a challenge to fit on S/C motors.

No sir, no super charger or turbo yet till this one goes and I build a new one.

Stock fan it is, Toyota spent a bunch on engineering, I'll roll stock Aisin.

Thanks CDan

 

[Tools R Us]

The fans age, if you need a new one they are commonly available, AISIN FNT004. This thread has lots of pretentiousness with little substance, for S/C fan info, try this thread, TRD SC Fan position vs stock