I have a 71 FJ40 and it came with a PTO, trying to figure out what it can pull. Or do I just go with a Warn unit.
PTO rating?
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According to the '72 Land Cruiser Owner's Manual, it is a "1 1/2-ton capacity winch".
I can't find specifications for it in the Chassis and Body manual, nor was it in the Engine manual that I can find. It seems to me that I have heard or read 8000 lbs somewhere, which, of course, is way different, but I can't recall where, and wouldn't attest to the veracity of that claim.
I can't find specifications for it in the Chassis and Body manual, nor was it in the Engine manual that I can find. It seems to me that I have heard or read 8000 lbs somewhere, which, of course, is way different, but I can't recall where, and wouldn't attest to the veracity of that claim.
I found a reference to the Ramsey PTO winch that was built as an aftermarket item for the cruiser. That was said to be 8000 lbs capacity.
Found yet another reference in a ?69 reprint of an owner's manual. Referred to the OEM PTO as "One-Ton capacity".
the PTO may have a 1 ton capacity with that twig of a sheer pin. My PTO has been drilled out to a 1/4" pin where it has a 1/4" roll pin there. With that set up i have succesfully yanked up 5 cruisers in the course of an hour. 1 of the club members decided to be a jackass and turned off his engine and i yanked him the entire way up the hill. Here are a couple pictures of me yanking two cruisers at once!!
[quote author=fr8train link=board=1;threadid=8072;start=msg68317#msg68317 date=1069874999]
I have a 71 FJ40 and it came with a PTO, trying to figure out what it can pull. Or do I just go with a Warn unit.
[/quote]
3000#'s is the rating.(owners manual)
I would go with a 8274-50, if it were my 'wheeler, and put that PTO on the other Land Cruiser. If you do not ever see yourself running your equipment in a situation that might have you end up on your side or roof, then use the PTO. I have needed to right my rig alone(not running alone, just the only one in the group with a winch)
and in that sitaution, a PTO winch, no matter how strong, would have not been of any use.
Good luck!
-Steve
I have a 71 FJ40 and it came with a PTO, trying to figure out what it can pull. Or do I just go with a Warn unit.
[/quote]
3000#'s is the rating.(owners manual)
I would go with a 8274-50, if it were my 'wheeler, and put that PTO on the other Land Cruiser. If you do not ever see yourself running your equipment in a situation that might have you end up on your side or roof, then use the PTO. I have needed to right my rig alone(not running alone, just the only one in the group with a winch)
and in that sitaution, a PTO winch, no matter how strong, would have not been of any use.
Good luck!
-Steve
[quote author=Poser link=board=1;threadid=8072;start=msg68420#msg68420 date=1069888445]
3000#'s is the rating.(owners manual)
I would go with a 8274-50, if it were my 'wheeler, and put that PTO on the other Land Cruiser. If you do not ever see yourself running your equipment in a situation that might have you end up on your side or roof, then use the PTO. I have needed to right my rig alone(not running alone, just the only one in the group with a winch)
and in that sitaution, a PTO winch, no matter how strong, would have not been of any use.
Good luck!
-Steve
[/quote]
I have to disagree those pictures i posted, one guy in the club decided to turn off his engine and made me winch him the entire way up the hill. That's 4500+ lbs of dead weight that i was pulling. That and i was yanking those two cruisers at once, granted they were romping on it i was still pulling both of 'em. The only problem with a PTO is if your engine won't turn on
3000#'s is the rating.(owners manual)
I would go with a 8274-50, if it were my 'wheeler, and put that PTO on the other Land Cruiser. If you do not ever see yourself running your equipment in a situation that might have you end up on your side or roof, then use the PTO. I have needed to right my rig alone(not running alone, just the only one in the group with a winch)
and in that sitaution, a PTO winch, no matter how strong, would have not been of any use.
Good luck!
-Steve
[/quote]
I have to disagree those pictures i posted, one guy in the club decided to turn off his engine and made me winch him the entire way up the hill. That's 4500+ lbs of dead weight that i was pulling. That and i was yanking those two cruisers at once, granted they were romping on it i was still pulling both of 'em. The only problem with a PTO is if your engine won't turn on
I have to agree with Greenie that the shear pin is likely the limiting factor. If Ramsey can attach a winch to the same PTO and rate it 8000 lbs, then the PTO is capable of about anything you would ask of it with the engine running. I think that's plenty strong. We can always get into a discussion of the relative values of PTO vs electric. Dead batteries come to mind as problematic for electric winches. Depends in part on how you plan to use the winch and your sense of originality value if it is an either/or decision. Heck, you could get an electric that mounts on a hitch receiver and do both if you wanted.
Having seen the bronze driven gear torn up on a handfull of PTO winch assemblies(Tulsa/Ramsey, Koreing, and Toyota) that had increased the size of the shear pin, the fuse will just move to a more expensive, or possibly hazzardous piece. I am not saying that PTO winches are not good, nor am I implying that the Toyota drive system could not provide power to a larger winch. I am simply saying that 'probalby' beacuse of liability, they de-rated the winch, as to hopefully lessen the likelyhood of a catastrophic failure leading to injury, because someone was not using good judgement while winching. We have not ever seen this happen before. :
Even the electrical winches that were offered later, were only rated at 4500#'s,(IIRC) and it appears to me in the drawings to be a Warn 8274, or a real good copy of one.
If Ramsey wants to accept the liability of selling thier winch as an 8000# unit, then that is thier decision. Toyota must have decided at some point, that it would be better to not sell thier PTO winch rated at that much. I am certain that, with a larger shear pin in place, that a person could overload the winch and the cable very easily, and we all know how much fun watching a loaded, snapped winch cable fly around is...
In the end, knowing and understanding the limitations of your equipment, and proper usage of it, is all that really matters, electric or PTO.
Dead batteries would prove probematic to both Dave...
Good luck!
-Steve
Even the electrical winches that were offered later, were only rated at 4500#'s,(IIRC) and it appears to me in the drawings to be a Warn 8274, or a real good copy of one.
If Ramsey wants to accept the liability of selling thier winch as an 8000# unit, then that is thier decision. Toyota must have decided at some point, that it would be better to not sell thier PTO winch rated at that much. I am certain that, with a larger shear pin in place, that a person could overload the winch and the cable very easily, and we all know how much fun watching a loaded, snapped winch cable fly around is...
In the end, knowing and understanding the limitations of your equipment, and proper usage of it, is all that really matters, electric or PTO.
Dead batteries would prove probematic to both Dave...
Good luck!
-Steve
What's the difference between line rating and pull rating? Or are they the same?
3000lbs seems low to me for a useful winch ???.
3000lbs seems low to me for a useful winch ???.
[quote author=Poser link=board=1;threadid=8072;start=msg68441#msg68441 date=1069892772]
In the end, knowing and understanding the limitations of your equipment, and proper usage of it, is all that really matters, electric or PTO.
Dead batteries would prove probematic to both Dave...
Good luck!
-Steve
[/quote]
Of course, you're right, Steve. I guess I was thinking duals.
In the end, knowing and understanding the limitations of your equipment, and proper usage of it, is all that really matters, electric or PTO.
Dead batteries would prove probematic to both Dave...
Good luck!
-Steve
[/quote]
Of course, you're right, Steve. I guess I was thinking duals.
- Thread starter
- #13
Wow. Thanks for the info guys. Green: do you ahve a pic of diagram of the pin you replaced? Thinking that I will put the PTO on my NEW( to me ) FJ 60. I am setting it up as a mild offroader/ tow rig for my FJ40s.
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What one really needs is a hydraulic winch, capable of being driven by 2 difference pumps, one that is driven by the engine, the other, an electric pump, so that you can still winch in the event of the roll over.
I suppose one could actually make it yourself, use the milemarker, and just add the electric hydraulic pump.
I suppose one could actually make it yourself, use the milemarker, and just add the electric hydraulic pump.
PTO winches will do 8K no problem.
So what have you broken on your PTO yet since you upgraded the shear pin?
I think the debate is weather or not the U-joints will go next or something else.
I like the bling blink factor of the PTO BUT now going SOA with Dual Transfers i am thinking that i may just get and 8274-50 and go with that. Oh and NOpe i will not sell the PTO winch setup...just need to get another cruiser to put it in. Not sold on going with the 8274-50 yet...i do like the Bling blink of the PTO though.
Stew
So what have you broken on your PTO yet since you upgraded the shear pin?
I think the debate is weather or not the U-joints will go next or something else.
I like the bling blink factor of the PTO BUT now going SOA with Dual Transfers i am thinking that i may just get and 8274-50 and go with that. Oh and NOpe i will not sell the PTO winch setup...just need to get another cruiser to put it in. Not sold on going with the 8274-50 yet...i do like the Bling blink of the PTO though.
Stew
[quote author=Big_Blue link=board=1;threadid=8072;start=msg68474#msg68474 date=1069895821]
What's the difference between line rating and pull rating? Or are they the same?
3000lbs seems low to me for a useful winch ???.
[/quote]
The line rating would be the force at which your cable breaks. The winch rating would be the point at which the winch gives up: presumably at a replacable pin which is designed to break prior to other components. A larger pin would potentially place other things at risk: drive shafts parts, etc.
What's the difference between line rating and pull rating? Or are they the same?
3000lbs seems low to me for a useful winch ???.
[/quote]
The line rating would be the force at which your cable breaks. The winch rating would be the point at which the winch gives up: presumably at a replacable pin which is designed to break prior to other components. A larger pin would potentially place other things at risk: drive shafts parts, etc.
[quote author=cruzer link=board=1;threadid=8072;start=msg68989#msg68989 date=1070076403]
PTO winches will do 8K no problem.
So what have you broken on your PTO yet since you upgraded the shear pin?
I think the debate is weather or not the U-joints will go next or something else.
I like the bling blink factor of the PTO BUT now going SOA with Dual Transfers i am thinking that i may just get and 8274-50 and go with that. Oh and NOpe i will not sell the PTO winch setup...just need to get another cruiser to put it in. Not sold on going with the 8274-50 yet...i do like the Bling blink of the PTO though.
Stew
[/quote]
Actually the weak point still was the upgraded pin in my winch. Like i said before i didn't know the winch was messed around with till i ordered some stock sheer pins and when i went to get the old one out it was definately way bigger. The pin that i blew was a dowell pin. I asked at the pirate forum about my pto winch and the user FC187 said to use a Roll Pin. He said that i will break winch lines before breaking that pin.
If Helocat (Mark) gets on he can tell you about his college buddy that had a pto and had to pull a fullsize rig out of a ditch. His pull was at a 90 degree, the front end was on the bump stops and was nearly blowing rivets out of the frame and the winch was still pulling. I'll try to get my g/f to take some pictures of the pins that i have. I have the factory, a 1/4" dowell and roll pin.
Oh yeah for the dual transfer cases you can still use the PTO winch. As of right now i have a sm465 in my rig with the AA adaptor. The Toy Box from AA will still allow use of the PTO winch if you really wanted.
PTO winches will do 8K no problem.
So what have you broken on your PTO yet since you upgraded the shear pin?
I think the debate is weather or not the U-joints will go next or something else.
I like the bling blink factor of the PTO BUT now going SOA with Dual Transfers i am thinking that i may just get and 8274-50 and go with that. Oh and NOpe i will not sell the PTO winch setup...just need to get another cruiser to put it in. Not sold on going with the 8274-50 yet...i do like the Bling blink of the PTO though.
Stew
[/quote]
Actually the weak point still was the upgraded pin in my winch. Like i said before i didn't know the winch was messed around with till i ordered some stock sheer pins and when i went to get the old one out it was definately way bigger. The pin that i blew was a dowell pin. I asked at the pirate forum about my pto winch and the user FC187 said to use a Roll Pin. He said that i will break winch lines before breaking that pin.
If Helocat (Mark) gets on he can tell you about his college buddy that had a pto and had to pull a fullsize rig out of a ditch. His pull was at a 90 degree, the front end was on the bump stops and was nearly blowing rivets out of the frame and the winch was still pulling. I'll try to get my g/f to take some pictures of the pins that i have. I have the factory, a 1/4" dowell and roll pin.
Oh yeah for the dual transfer cases you can still use the PTO winch. As of right now i have a sm465 in my rig with the AA adaptor. The Toy Box from AA will still allow use of the PTO winch if you really wanted.
A Cruiser PTO with an upgraded shear pin will pull in excess of 8K I am sure of it. That is one stout mutha!
As for me, I have been in too many "Dead engine" winch situations where a PTO or a Hydro winch would not have worked at all.
With the miracle of modern batteries like the Optima line, the electric winch has become a no-brainer for those who really want a dependable winch.
PTO's are undoubltably the Cruiserheads choice for the bling factor, but for pure use, go Electric
As for me, I have been in too many "Dead engine" winch situations where a PTO or a Hydro winch would not have worked at all.
With the miracle of modern batteries like the Optima line, the electric winch has become a no-brainer for those who really want a dependable winch.
PTO's are undoubltably the Cruiserheads choice for the bling factor, but for pure use, go Electric
