Probs with starter...I think. (1 Viewer)

[Cruiser62]

So, just like all of the other threads that I have read, here is my story. It's an 89 FJ62 and over the last few years, maybe every few months, she won't turn over. I turn the key, all of the lights come on but the is no turnover. Normally, I was able to tap the starter and then she would start right up. Except for this last time. No matter what I did, she wouldn't start so I had her towed. I changed out the starter, cleaned the grounds, the battery posts and the connector. after that she started up, drove around for awhile and then wouldn't start. I've been using a jumper to start her but the rainy season is starting her in Oregon and I don't want to have to do this every time. I took it to my mechanic to look at and it naturally started everytime for him. so, any suggestions? This problem is causing me premature balding. Thanks for any help

 

[land crusher]

I've had this same problem, but it only happens when it's hot (either hot out, or no a not as hot day after having been driving a lot and it's hot under the hood). Never does it when it's cold out. Normally a tap takes care of it, but once or twice it took many taps (or perhaps time) for it to work again. I've taken off the starter, inspected it and cleaned up connections. Doesn't look like it needs a rebuild. I'm curious to hear what people think.

 

[Shane1981]

Next time it happens grab your multimeter and check to see if you are getting voltage to the starter solenoid on the starter motor. If so can you hear the starter solenoid clicking when you turn the key? If it's not clicking and it has power it is probably a faulty solenoid. Also check the voltage at the battery and compare it to the voltage at the main power cable at the starter. If there is a considerable voltage drop undo all your main power connections including earths and give them a good clean. The list just goes on and on of things you could check, i guess you need to narrow it down a little by various checks.

Good Luck.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

So, if the starter is new (and after you've verified you didn't install a dud) and the connections are all good, then perhaps it's time to blame the battery cable(s).

 

[Shane1981]

To be more precise i would say battery cable connections, it would probably also be worth while checking your ignition switch too.

 

[mwood5]

Isn't there also some issue with the wiring harness somewhere in the column? I seem to recall reading a bit about it. I don't think I've seen too much info on what it really is or how to repair it, other than to basically "hotwire" the car with an additional start button somewhere.
Mine does this as well. Everything always seems to check out....good starter, etc. I carry a spare starter in the back just in case, but I suspect my issue is the mystery wiring gremlin.

Sounds like the case here too. When mine won't turn over, there is no starter clicking or any sound at all. All other electronics work fine and the battery voltage appears normal on the gauge. But, when I turn the key over to start, the gauge drops to nothing. I let it sit for 10 minutes or so and it starts right up with full battery power. Or, I can jump it and get it going immediately.

That's my story anyway.

m

 

[specialk396]

I always check that the neutral safety switch is not sticking when you have a no start like this with an automatic. My automatic cars all seem to have an intermittent problem with this. Try wiggling the shifter or putting it in neutral when it won't turn over.

 

[augirthedude]

Since tapping the starter cured the problem earlier and it seems to an intermitent problem I would suspect a faulty starter solenoid.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I will reiterate what is above: I have a 1988 FJ62 and I have had this similar problem. Here’s what I would check, staring with the easiest:

1. Move your shifter back and forth a few times to make sure it is in Park. If the vehicle is not in Park then it won’t start. SpecialK396 is correct when he mentions the neutral safety switch (NSS.) If your shifter is sloppy sometimes your NSS will not be in the correct position even though your shifter shows Park. It is located on the passenger side of the transmission sticking out. A telltale sign that this is the case is the fact that you hear no click when you turn the key.

2. If you hear a click then your NSS is ok and you are in park. If the car has not been driven in a few hours and you hear a click then you probably have a bad battery or a bad connection. As you stated above, check your grounds and battery cables. Put a multimeter on the battery, is it fully charged?

3. If your battery is good and connections are good and you hear a click when turning the key then you might have one of the following:
Bad copper contacts or plunger inside the starter (an FJ80 $40 rebuild kit can fix this, they had the same starter.) A bad solenoid would also do this. The tell tale sign for these symptoms is having to hit the starter to get it to start as you mentioned above.

Check the three scenarios above and let us know what you find. No one should have to deal with starting issues in the rain, that just sucks.

 

[Tofudebeest]

I had the exact symptoms. You'll need to have a relay installed. You are having a voltage drop to the starter and I'm betting you are getting 7-8 volts at the starter, tops. It'll need to get kicked up to 12-14.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I had the exact symptoms. You'll need to have a relay installed. You are having a voltage drop to the starter and I'm betting you are getting 7-8 volts at the starter, tops. It'll need to get kicked up to 12-14.

That sounds like a good idea. I might have to do that.

But beware that he may have a different problem. Installing the relay may just hide the real problem like a bad ground or corroded connections.

 

[rickyrockrat]

I've had this several times, and each time I had to rebuild the solenoid. I can't remember exactly what the issue is, but there is a copper plate in there that starts to erode. I've been able to repair mine with some heavy duty copper wiring spades.

I bet it is the solenoid. I don't know about '89s, but my '86 has the battery cable come directly to the solenoid, so if you are getting low voltage at the starter, make sure you have good voltage at the solenoid (measure from battery post to solenoid end of cable to make sure your battery connection is good).

Also measure your battery voltage (from post to post) while someone tries to start the car. You could have a bad battery.

If you have good voltage at the solenoid but not at the starter, clearly your solenoid is out.

I'll see if I can write up a tech on how to repair that solenoid. It's not too hard as I recall- basically just forming some copper plate to replace what has been vaporized.

 

[Cruiser62]

Thanks for all of the replies. This weekend I'll try the multimeter and change out the battery cables. I've tried putting it in neutral and still don't get any response. having a relay installed would probably be a good idea but like randy said, i would rather not put a band-aid over the problem. I appreciate all of the ideas that were thrown out there. It's a busy weekend and then I am working in the mountains for the month but when I get back i'll have more time to work on this more.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I did not know you could start it in Neutral.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I've had this several times, and each time I had to rebuild the solenoid. I can't remember exactly what the issue is, but there is a copper plate in there that starts to erode. I've been able to repair mine with some heavy duty copper wiring spades.

I bet it is the solenoid. I don't know about '89s, but my '86 has the battery cable come directly to the solenoid, so if you are getting low voltage at the starter, make sure you have good voltage at the solenoid (measure from battery post to solenoid end of cable to make sure your battery connection is good).

Also measure your battery voltage (from post to post) while someone tries to start the car. You could have a bad battery.

If you have good voltage at the solenoid but not at the starter, clearly your solenoid is out.

I'll see if I can write up a tech on how to repair that solenoid. It's not too hard as I recall- basically just forming some copper plate to replace what has been vaporized.

Ricky,
Are you talking about the two copper contacts and the copper washer on the plunger? There is a writeup in FAQ about that rebuild and I also added my pictures to it too.

Cruiser62,
Read post #6 in this thread. It is very informative and reviews some of the things you are about to diagnose.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/105626-here-toyota-part-s-starter-rebuild.html

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Putting it in Neutral will not start the truck. Moving the shifter back and forth and ending in Park may help move the switch around. The car will only start when the truck is in Park.

Randy, are you saying that at all times the truck should not start in N, but P only? If so, that's not correct, pal. Both P and N should work equally well. Otherwise, that was good advice to check the NSS.

As a reminder to all, note that the starter has been replaced already. Question, what brand is the new starter? Being new does not totally remove the possibility it's a dud, too.

 

[augirthedude]

yes the bad new starter ....... I had this happen to me and was so sure that it was not the problem . i replaced every thing else too ign. switch start relay , new wires , batt. cables ..... but alas it was the the new starter assy. that i bought . i pulled it out and bench tested too . .. do not rule the new starter out .

 

[Cruiser62]

first of all, Randy, thanks for that thread. the new starter is a bosch and no, I didn't bench test it to see if that's the culprit. thanks for the advise all
I've been driving it and starting it quite a bit today and no problem. So..the mystery continues

 

[Captain Caveman]

I would bet that the ignition switch is not sourcing enough current to the starter solenoid (as stated above). I would follow the route of tying a relay onto the switched 12V to the starter with a draw straight from the battery through a fuse into the relay and then onto the starter solenoid.

I'd also freshen up or clean the ground from the chassis to the engine block and battery to engine block.

 

[land crusher]

I'm not sure most folks replying to this thread are noting the key symptom:

that the remedy is to smack the starter with a hammer.

Obviously this points to the solenoid, however in my case I took it apart expecting it to need a rebuild, but all the bits looked new and shiny.

The other interesting thing in my case is that it ONLY occurs when it's hot out (or it's warm out and it's hot under the hood from hours of driving).

Voltages are good throughout the truck for me, but I do plan to test voltages again the next time this problem pops up. Of course, now that I'm waiting for it, it probably won't happen again for a year and at an innoportune time/location.