I just want a tundra with AHC.
Price Negotiation
- Thread starter NicB
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FWIW - as far as negotiating price; sometimes it's worth hiring a broker. I did that with my last purchase mainly because they could act as a wholesale intermediary and save $3k in sales tax alone if I sell my car to someone different from who I buy from (which I did). For the amount of time it would take me to negotiate the deal and my trade it was easily worth the $500 I paid a broker to shop my trade and negotiate a deal.
Me too. Big miss to not offer it on the Capstone Tundra and Sequoia.
I’m a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the role the regional/port distributors play.
I’ve always understood it as dealers are beholden to their wishes and orders. If a dealer puts “your name next to an allocation” then that’s just the dealer hoping that a vehicle gets made on a list the distributor says they intend to order from Toyota.
And every regional distributor orders different configurations of vehicles. In 2020 I searched for a 4R ORP with KDSS and Gulf States only had 2 IIRC. I had no negotiating power with my dealer then. So then I researched a bit and found there’s a group in the Rocky Mountain region that had a plethora of 4Rs with KDSS. So I contacted them and was able to negotiate with dealers some. Gulf States dealers wouldn’t negotiate because they over valued KDSS rigs because of scarcity in their region.
Learning this helped me with a price negotiation for a unique purchase.
I’ve always understood it as dealers are beholden to their wishes and orders. If a dealer puts “your name next to an allocation” then that’s just the dealer hoping that a vehicle gets made on a list the distributor says they intend to order from Toyota.
And every regional distributor orders different configurations of vehicles. In 2020 I searched for a 4R ORP with KDSS and Gulf States only had 2 IIRC. I had no negotiating power with my dealer then. So then I researched a bit and found there’s a group in the Rocky Mountain region that had a plethora of 4Rs with KDSS. So I contacted them and was able to negotiate with dealers some. Gulf States dealers wouldn’t negotiate because they over valued KDSS rigs because of scarcity in their region.
Learning this helped me with a price negotiation for a unique purchase.
A lot of it is certainly due to a combination of vehicle shortages (by our out-of-whack economy) and legally-mandated middlemen on vehicle sales, such as dealers and distributors. All three of those inflate the price of vehicles, make the market less competitive, and hurt consumers.
I'm sure a lot of this will at least somewhat reverse when the economy inevitably slows down and the market tilts more in the buyer's favor. But, that doesn't change the fact that the only reason dealerships (in their current configuration) exist is due to special-interest driven state laws that mandate their very existence.
I'm sure a lot of this will at least somewhat reverse when the economy inevitably slows down and the market tilts more in the buyer's favor. But, that doesn't change the fact that the only reason dealerships (in their current configuration) exist is due to special-interest driven state laws that mandate their very existence.
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joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
I only deal directly with the sales manager at both the dealerships I use, precisely to avoid sales BS. I typically know far more about any vehicle I am buying than the sales people, so my only concern is cost. I used to be in management at a Hino dealership (if you don’t know what Hino is, you probably should do a bit of reading). The word “allotment” is valid here. My sales manager wants 20 1958s for MY 2025. Toyota has all the other requests from all the other dealers. They then put that against total plant output, and past sales performance at each dealer. They then “allocate” a certain number to each dealership. Mine, for example, may get 12 or 15 of their requested 20. That is 100% an “allotment”.
Clearly you don’t have In N Out over there in Kantucke…
Oh, and my “enlighten me” comment was sarcasm. But your response did show a depth of knowledge in Toyotas manufacturing acronyms.
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
Oh, and my dealer has a black 1958 coming in the first week of March, and has put our name on it. I told him just set us up with the next 1958 to arrive. We were originally “anything but black”, but now are “anything but the Tundra that has less than 2,000 miles left in the lease that ends in July” 
I'm kinda amazed at all the mentions of "my dealer" in this thread. I don't have one of those, because new vehicles are commodities, and commodities trade on price. I search nationally, get a best and final offer from whatever dealership has the vehicle that is what I want, or close enough. If that offer works, I buy the vehicle and either arrange shipment, drive and drive, or fly and drive. I then go to "my dealer" for oil changes, at least until the free service time frame ends.
The most odd part of this is the mismatch between the allocation that suggests that Toyota is just building some random or semi-random assortment of vehicles and doesn't have the ability to custom build them. And the reality at the factories is that every vehicle is built to order. Toyota is famous for not building vehicles randomly to generic spec. They don't start building a Tundra unless it's already allocated to the dealer. And they don't build them in production runs of 100 Tundras in a row. They build each one individually in a series of one vehicle. You can see the videos of prior production lines with a red 4Runner followed by a black GX460 followed by a white Land Cruiser 200 - each one bespoke based on the build sheet.
In a world where logistics programs like Amazon exist, it's almost incomprehensible to me that Toyota doesn't build custom orders for its vehicles. They're already doing the hardest parts. Limiting the range of options makes sense to reduce costs. Limiting the combination of parts bin options and limiting the ability to order available combinations is illogical. Taking the order and the cash before production seems like a no-brainer.
Here's something cool since we are talking past 4Runner prices. The original sticker from my 92'. I highly doubt my grandparents paid anything close to the asking price. Some of you may not remember, but prior to 2020, 99.999995% of new vehicle purchases involved price negotiations. Accounting for inflation, my 23' GX460 was a better deal compared to the MSRP of the 4Runner. The rear heater is totally worth the $150. I wish the annual fuel cost was actually $1285, with the way things have been over the past 4 years, my MONTHLY fuel bill is about that amount.
Here's one that my parents purchased 9 years later. The 2001 replaced my moms 1990 4Runner which we bought used to replace our 1986 Toyota VAN. I miss the Van. Sadly the 90' 4runner was totaled by a drunk driver.
Here's one that my parents purchased 9 years later. The 2001 replaced my moms 1990 4Runner which we bought used to replace our 1986 Toyota VAN. I miss the Van. Sadly the 90' 4runner was totaled by a drunk driver.
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Yeah, 2 thangs we aint got here in Kan-Tuck-EEE is them thar in and outs and we aint gots no edumacation neither.
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
Crazy how the price only went up by $2,000 in 9 years!
I did the same thing in '19, except it had to be in Montana to avoid the sales tax. I have property there and my DL is MT.
Yep... that's before Toyota (and most of the other manufacturers) noted people would pay whatever - mark-ups and all - blame it on inflation, shove it and they will take it. Now, with luck, it is $2k increase yearly and apparently $10k if it's a new generation. $100k price tags are commonplace talk.
Somewhat getting back on the actual thread topic here regarding pricing of new vehicles and negotiations (or lack there of). We did this to ourselves. If consumers are willing to take it in the shorts you can bet the dealers will happily keep sticking it to em.
Catching Neutral
GOLD Star
Too many variables…time of month, time of year, paying cash or financing through Toyota, etc. A dealer will not budge on a 2025 that just hit the lot.
They will budge on a new 2024 1958 that been sitting a while.
A high volume dealer likely has more wiggle room.
When we bought our 200 in 2019 our regional dealers wouldn’t budge at all. So I took a lot of time researching and settled on one that was used, 8 months old with 8k miles. Bought it for 18k under MSRP. Then paid $250 for a one way ticket, $150 for a hotel room. And to this day am happy with the deal.
So far the best I have done in negotiating for a 250 is $1500 off MSRP.
They will budge on a new 2024 1958 that been sitting a while.
A high volume dealer likely has more wiggle room.
When we bought our 200 in 2019 our regional dealers wouldn’t budge at all. So I took a lot of time researching and settled on one that was used, 8 months old with 8k miles. Bought it for 18k under MSRP. Then paid $250 for a one way ticket, $150 for a hotel room. And to this day am happy with the deal.
So far the best I have done in negotiating for a 250 is $1500 off MSRP.
I'm in Texas, so there is no avoiding sales tax, which gets paid when I register the vehicle here. I don't pay sales tax in whatever place I buy the vehicle.
It appears that you can register in MT, and avoid CA taxes, which is a good thing.
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
There are no ‘24s lingering here in western Canada, so I’m stuck getting a ‘25. There is no wiggle room on pricing. I’m turning in a mile’d out lease early, so that’s where I can make up the difference.
I just swung by my local Lexus dealership. All GX’s had $1500 paint protection, $3500 ding, windshield tire protection and a $8500 dealer markup. Is that how dealers are selling these things or is it a Southern California thing?
I dont have property in Montana, but I have an LLC there for an actual business. I used it to register my 80 there. That lasted 6 months until I got a letter then a second letter from the CHP telling me that my rig needed to be registered in California. The law is pretty clear about it and didn’t feel like fighting it. Part of me thinks its was neighbor that reported me since we have an ongoing beef.
