POLL: Which is more important... No NAV or KDSS?

[subspd]

I am looking to purchase a GX and I seem to be able to find no NAV options or KDSS options. But I can not find one with both.

So if you had to choose one over the other which would you pick?

 

[JLee]

I've owned a 2007 Sport (KDSS) with nav and a 2005 w/KDSS and nav.

I run a Grom bluetooth adapter and that's good enough for me. I might put a single DIN stereo in with the Beatsonic wiring adapter (which I already have) but I'm struggling to find the motivation to do so when bluetooth audio works fine.

 

[GXO]

non-NAV means you can swap head units and have options. KDSS just means I have to remove it to put in long travel suspension anyway! Even if you LT the rear you have to lose KDSS.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I have a 2003 without KDSS and with nav. I like to keep most of my SUVs stock other than a handful of mild upgrades like bigger tires, mild lift, rock sliders, and a few other minor upgrades.

Knowing my mild exploration intentions if I could have waited for a KDSS one, I would have waited since no plans to lift higher than 2.5" or add tires bigger than 275/70R17s. Since I've never driven in one with KDSS, I don't know what I'm missing. I don't drive it like a sports car on the streets and I'm not sure what I gain offroad.

I'm having more problems figuring out how to use the "automatic" traction control ATRAC that doesn't seem to automatically prevent wheel spins despite me doing all the manual steps: (1) put it on 4lo, (2) lock the center (CDL dash light is solid), (3) lower air on tires, (4), press brake pedal and accelerator at the same time, (5) keep RPMs under 2000. But, I digress.

Now that I think more on the navigation system with Mark Levinson speakers, I do think it's a pain in the arse. First, the speakers sound like crap. I've repaired the foam on the subwoofer, but it still doesn't sound good. I've replaced the two front door speakers and those sound okay. It doesn't compare with my 2008 LS460 Mark Levinson system. I think the biggest problem is that there are over 10 speakers and the subwoofer is a custom size without many options to replace.

Second, the lack of bluetooth/aux connectivity is a major drag on long trips. Easy to solve this problem with a $120 bluetooth/aux adaptor. Third, there's no rear backup camera on mine. Getting the a/v adaptor is expensive like $500, so I'm going in a different direction (probably wifi cameras that connect directly to my iPhone). Finally, navigation is really not a problem. I use apps for maps (Gaia Offroad Maps, Google Offline Maps, Apple Maps, Waze, etc.).

After writing all this, I can now vote for "non-nav" over KDSS.

 

[JLee]

For what it's worth, a properly operating ML system sounds fine.

 

[GXO]

A properly installed JL audio and alpine system sounds amazinger though

 

[Arailt]

I have non-KDSS and Nav. Like I said before, my non-KDSS handles great. I purposely stayed away from KDSS because I knew it would limit my lift, slider, and skid options.

As for the nav, I have an 08, so it's got the "updated" nav system, whatever that's worth. I hear the pre 2007 nav units have a slightly different interface and are less desirable. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Anyway, mine works well for what I do with it, but if I had to do it over, I'd probably go for a non-nav model. The maps are pretty worthless because they're so out of date. I suppose you can update, but most will opt for using a map app anyway. The ML speakers are acceptable. If you want to replace them, the options are very limited because they operate on 8ohms.

*** If you prefer to completely replace your factory radio with an aftermarket head unit, you have to get a non-navigation model because the HVAC controls are integrated into the factory nav unit.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

For what it's worth, a properly operating ML system sounds fine.

Rub it in! Yeah, I know. The ML system sounds pretty good on my 2008 LS460 and I drive it frequently. It has Bluetooth, aux input, and rear view camera and it’s all factory built-in! that’s why it bugs me that it sounds so crappy on my 2003 GX470 and primarily because the speakers have not aged well on my GX470.

I was hoping that replacing the front door speakers and repairing the subwoofer foam would make it good and it almost did. The repaired subwoofer still has a vibrating/rattling noise coming from the cardboard cone of the subwoofer. New foam looks in great shape but cone rattles still.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

*** If you prefer to completely replace your factory radio with an aftermarket head unit, you have to get a non-navigation model because the HVAC controls are integrated into the factory nav unit.

Maybe there's a few different camps of thinking here.

Camp 1 -- Don't want to spend any money on the audio system...I just want it to work as is.
If you are in this camp, check the sound on the subwoofer before you buy a nav system one. Otherwise, you will end up in camp #2.

Camp 2 -- I can make a couple of repairs and minor upgrades with adapters, but not put in a whole new premium system.
I'm in this camp, but it didn't work out for me on my 2003 GX470. Subwoofer foam repair didn't fix the rattling. It's missing bluetooth and rear camera connectivity. On a side note, @JLee would a 2008 GX470 nav head-unit get the me features I want? Is the 2008 head-unit plug and play on a 2003? Hmmm, maybe that's a better upgrade than the Grom adapters. Now that people are looking into the Tesla upgrade, maybe some factory nav head-units will be available.

Camp 3 -- I want a premier audio system and I'm willing to spend money to upgrade.
If you are in this camp where you are going to upgrade all the speakers, subwoofer, amp, and head-unit, then yeah get the non-nav. It's easier to deal with the HVAC controls.

 

[Arailt]

Maybe there's a few different camps of thinking here.

Camp 1 -- Don't want to spend any money on the audio system...I just want it to work as is.
If you are in this camp, check the sound on the subwoofer before you buy a nav system one. Otherwise, you will end up in camp #2.

Camp 2 -- I can make a couple of repairs and minor upgrades with adapters, but not put in a whole new premium system.
I'm in this camp, but it didn't work out for me on my 2003 GX470. Subwoofer foam repair didn't fix the rattling. It's missing bluetooth and rear camera connectivity. On a side note, @JLee would a 2008 GX470 nav head-unit get the me features I want? Is the 2008 head-unit plug and play on a 2003? Hmmm, maybe that's a better upgrade than the Grom adapters. Now that people are looking into the Tesla upgrade, maybe some factory nav head-units will be available.

Camp 3 -- I want a premier audio system and I'm willing to spend money to upgrade.
If you are in this camp where you are going to upgrade all the speakers, subwoofer, amp, and head-unit, then yeah get the non-nav. It's easier to deal with the HVAC controls.

I agree with everything your saying. I was just pointing out that if you want to completely replace the nav with an aftermarket head unit, you must buy a non-nav model. No maybes about it Something I wish I'd paid more attention to before I bought mine.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Oh, it's you @Arailt that has the 2008. Is your nav head-unit also have the integrated HVAC harness and controls? There's also threads on the Tesla head-unit replacements. I need to read up more on that.

Honestly, if I just buy the bluetooth adapter and fix the subwoofer, I should be good. That's all I really want.

 

[JLee]

A properly installed JL audio and alpine system sounds amazinger though

You can still do that in a nav truck.

 

[Arailt]

Oh, it's you @Arailt that has the 2008. Is your nav head-unit also have the integrated HVAC harness and controls?

Yep. HVAC is integrated, unfortunately. It's exactly as you describe the nav unit in your LS. Bluetooth (phone, out of the driver's side door only ), aux audio input, rear camera.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Found this YouTube video on how to replace the single din stereo head-unit on a nav 2004 GX470. Harness is spendy...

$280 for harness Beat Sonic MVA-81
$125 for single DIN kenwood stereo keg-bt565u but I suppose you can substitute with your favorite brand and model

Little expensive but a nav unit solution nonetheless.

 

[JLee]

Found this YouTube video on how to replace the single din stereo head-unit on a nav 2004 GX470. Harness is spendy...

$280 for harness Beat Sonic MVA-81
$125 for single DIN kenwood stereo keg-bt565u but I suppose you can substitute with your favorite brand and model

Little expensive but a nav unit solution nonetheless.

Yep. There was a group buy on the BeatSonic adapter a few months back - I snagged one at a significant discount.

 

[Arailt]

Found this YouTube video on how to replace the single din stereo head-unit on a nav 2004 GX470. Harness is spendy...

$280 for harness Beat Sonic MVA-81
$125 for single DIN kenwood stereo keg-bt565u but I suppose you can substitute with your favorite brand and model

Little expensive but a nav unit solution nonetheless.

You're still stuck with the ML amp and speakers, which is 90% of my gripe with the system.

The only real "fix" I know of is to wire a stand alone single DIN into the cassette slot and overlay completely new speaker wiring throughout the vehicle. That would allow you to run new speakers and amp(s).

 

[JLee]

You're still stuck with the ML amp and speakers, which is 90% of my gripe with the system.

The only real "fix" I know of is to wire a stand alone single DIN into the cassette slot and overlay completely new speaker wiring throughout the vehicle. That would allow you to run new speakers and amp(s).

You're stuck with the non-ML amp and speakers if you just drop a new head unit into a non-nav truck. I don't really see the difference here.

 

[GXO]

I swapped everything....head unit, amp, wiring, speakers, the works!

 

[Arailt]

You're stuck with the non-ML amp and speakers if you just drop a new head unit into a non-nav truck. I don't really see the difference here.

You can upgrade to any speakers and amps you want with an aftermarket unit on the non-nav model. Nothing is tied to the factory unit like with the ML nav unit.

 

[JLee]

You can upgrade to any speakers and amps you want with an aftermarket unit on the non-nav model. Nothing is tied to the factory unit like with the ML nav unit.

You can do the same with a nav model, you're just stuck with a single DIN stereo.