zipastro said:
Broom your Cruiser and buy a domestic car. You deserve each other.
PO401 Defeated!!
- Thread starter Bear80
- Start date
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Broom your Cruiser and buy a domestic car. You deserve each other.
cruiserdan said:
I suppose I could......can you help me pick out a good one with seat belts that still retract after 100K?
All BS aside I still believe Toyota OVERALL quality is second to none but there is always room for improvement. It is frustrating to see so many LC's affected with the same illusive failure.
Back to the problem, is it not true that many times the ECU "thinks" there is a problem and triggers the CEL when actually no bad parts can be identified? So if all components function properly what are you hurting if you reengineer \ simplify the EGR system with the Bear80 mod?
Why is it that everyone is OK with altering original suspension, brakes or aspiration but someone pisses with the sacred EGR system (weak design to begin with)and your deemed a hack?
EGR is not Sacred. It is not at all that bad parts can't be identifed. They can be identified just fine when the proper trouble-shooting protocol is followed. The true problem is that protocol is not followed. People throw parts at it hoping to "fix" it with a magic bullet or a scientific wild ass guess. Often they identify one problem and attempt to fix that before they go through the whole system to make sure that they found the whole problem.
Don't get me wrong EGR in these things can be a challenge. Why do you think I have a "dumb" 93?...
BUT, we piss and moan about a little light on the dash while other make owners spit out transmissions, ball joints, engines, axles and a few other minor bits.
D-
Don't get me wrong EGR in these things can be a challenge. Why do you think I have a "dumb" 93?...
BUT, we piss and moan about a little light on the dash while other make owners spit out transmissions, ball joints, engines, axles and a few other minor bits.
D-
I could be wrong but most post I recall reading sound more like "I tested VSV, EGR mod, EGR valve, EGR temp sensor ect... and they tested fine so I replaced ____ as a guess. CEL light went out for _____ months but then came back so I rpl ____ and its been gone for ____ months."
To me it sounds like the EGR system is still functioning properly in *most* all cases. The CEL seems to be caused by an over sensitive ECU that falsely imterprets a failure and switches to open loop mode. So if you can trick the computer back into normal mode all will be OK.
To me it sounds like the EGR system is still functioning properly in *most* all cases. The CEL seems to be caused by an over sensitive ECU that falsely imterprets a failure and switches to open loop mode. So if you can trick the computer back into normal mode all will be OK.
Nice work bear weather I would do something like this or not it is nice to know it can be done.
Next question is does this open the door to deleting the EGR altogether? here in GA as long as I have no codes I pass emission, Exhuast gasses are suposedly inert filler so would not effect fuel metering, the EFI system should be unaffected, this should allow comubstion tempratures to increase possibly increasing power, probably a matching decrase in fuel effeciency. cleaner intake tract, less complication ect.
besides higher NOX emissions would there bee any other downside?
Next question is does this open the door to deleting the EGR altogether? here in GA as long as I have no codes I pass emission, Exhuast gasses are suposedly inert filler so would not effect fuel metering, the EFI system should be unaffected, this should allow comubstion tempratures to increase possibly increasing power, probably a matching decrase in fuel effeciency. cleaner intake tract, less complication ect.
besides higher NOX emissions would there bee any other downside?
Raven,
Rich covered the reasons that our US spec vehicles NEED a working EGR system. Our ECUs are programmed for them and, though they can be tricked, you are rolling the dice unless you reprogram the ECU.
Zipastro,
As I recall, most of those posts "guessed" at one or more components; usually the VSV because it is just as easy to replace as it is to test since you have to remove it to test it. The other variable is many people just want to replace a part when, as in Simon's case, the problem was clogged EGR passages. I suspect most of those posts you cite are loose/leaking/clogged hoses or the EGR port on the intake is clogged.
Simon and others have speculated that the failures are not always simplistic. As an example, a dirty EGR modulator will eventually result in a downstream failure; VSV & clogged passages being the most common.
This isn't VooDoo or Rocket Science but it seems the EGR system is frustrating for some DIY guys, myself included. It took me over a year to finally get mine fixed (2+ years and 40k miles.... with no P0401)
-B-
Rich covered the reasons that our US spec vehicles NEED a working EGR system. Our ECUs are programmed for them and, though they can be tricked, you are rolling the dice unless you reprogram the ECU.
zipastro said:
Zipastro,
As I recall, most of those posts "guessed" at one or more components; usually the VSV because it is just as easy to replace as it is to test since you have to remove it to test it. The other variable is many people just want to replace a part when, as in Simon's case, the problem was clogged EGR passages. I suspect most of those posts you cite are loose/leaking/clogged hoses or the EGR port on the intake is clogged.
Simon and others have speculated that the failures are not always simplistic. As an example, a dirty EGR modulator will eventually result in a downstream failure; VSV & clogged passages being the most common.
This isn't VooDoo or Rocket Science but it seems the EGR system is frustrating for some DIY guys, myself included. It took me over a year to finally get mine fixed (2+ years and 40k miles.... with no P0401)
-B-
it wasn't a comparison of electrical and mechanical problems, it was a comparison of the quality of "the fix".
And feel free and mention me by name. I don't care.
And feel free and mention me by name. I don't care.
Rich said:
Sure........But just because you tricked the temp sensor does not mean you disabled the EGR system. Hypothetically you could be tricking the system with recirc exhaust that was 5 degrees out of spec.
2 Weeks and no CEL......
2 weeks <> crap. Give it time.zipastro said:
zipastro said:
And pulling the bulb from the dash will ALSO insure you will go a very long time with no CEL/MIL.
You've got a MIL my friend, you just don't know it because you've disabled the system. Kinda like an ostrich with it's head in the sand.
-B-
Well to defend zipastro, he only has his head in the sand when it comes to the EGR. Any other MIL should be displayed. Slightly better than removing the bulb. Not that I'm agreeing with the solution, just that it's mildly better than bulb removal.
Soo much effort, such an easy fix. A little costly though.
Soo much effort, such an easy fix. A little costly though.
zipastro said:
9 years and 170,000 miles and never had one.
and my seat belts retract also.
will wonders ever cease.
landtank said:
You own a mini truck too???????
C'mon try and keep up with the pack, I cant keep explaining things to you like your 3rd grade teacher did.
Cool fix. FWIW: I get this all the time in the shop. One thing that I keep finding is that the temp sensor will test out fine but does not work correctly causing the problem. Unless I see an obvious issue or a non testing out part the temp sensor is the first to be replaced.
I have seen a bad EGR or 2 and a clogged VSV line but have yet to see a non functioning VSV. Not to say I have not replaced a few and they suck!
I have seen a bad EGR or 2 and a clogged VSV line but have yet to see a non functioning VSV. Not to say I have not replaced a few and they suck!
Beowulf said:
I disagree. When the CEL is on then you can be 100% certain the system is disabled. With this mod I just plug in a resistor that tricks the system into thinking the EGR temp is always in the OK range. BFD so I am tricking the system into using exhaust that is maybe at 10 degrees lower than designed spec? Or maybe only at 90% of designed flow rate.
I am amazed that so many people are offended by this fix for a 11 yr old fairly low tech engine(compared to todays standards) This board is flooded with people more than willing to alter anything and everything on their cruiser in the name of so called performance.
Yep, you got me someone call EGR police. It might take them awhile to respond as I have heard they are pretty busy responding to people running superchargers and horked up emissions systems.
Rich said:
Or at 300% and 50 degrees higher than design spec?
-B-
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