Planning on removing the 3rd and front diff... myself

[3D FJ]

I am pretty confident that I either stripped my ring or pinion gear in my front diff. I've been reading and reading, searching and reading. There's a lot of info in the 607 pages of tech articles here on mud however, I haven't been able to find much about people removing their 3rd members and front diff to send out to be regeared and locked. I would like to remove them this weekend and get them sent out. Before i do, i was hoping to find some answers to some questions that i have. Any tips, trick, help etc.. would be greatly appreciated.

1. When i remove the axles (F&R), is it necessary to replace the oil seals and snap rings?

2. When i remove the 3rd member, do i have to completely remove the rear axles from the axle tube or can i slide them out enough to be clear of the third member so i can remove it (3rd)? (so long as i support the end of the axle as to not sit directly on the oil seal)

3. The FSM states that match marks should be placed on the driveshafts and flange on the front diff and 3rd member prior to disconnecting and removal... how important is this? I ask because when i was on the trail and removing the front driveshaft, i didn't do this. Is there a proper orientation of the driveshafts?

4. When removing the cv axles, (as per FSM), the UCA and LCA are disconnected. Is there a reason for this? Can't the UCA just be disconnected and then the steering knuckle be moved around a little to get the axle removed from the hub and inboard joint assembly out from the diff?

5. When i get past all this and i have removed the front diff, I have to remove the differential tube (driver's side i believe) from the case. It's held on by 4 bolts... What creates the seal? I would think there is a gasket but i don't like to assume things.

6. Upon reassembly of the third member once i get it back, is it only a gasket that creates the seal or is there some type of sealant like rtv that i should use in addition to the gasket?

7. When I've undone the nuts that hold in the 3rd member, is it just going to drop or will there be a significant amount of force that is required to remove it?

8. When removing the cv axles, what do you use? back action? brass drift?

9. Is there anything that i should replace/service ect "while i'm in there"?

10. Lets say, the studs that hold in the 3rd member are a little damaged by me not being mindful of where i place my diff over while wheeling (stupid rocks), is there a way to replace said studs?


As i said... Any input, advice, help would be greatly appreciated. This is my first time doing this obviously but if i don't try it, or learn it, i'll never know how to do it.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

2. When i remove the 3rd member, do i have to completely remove the rear axles from the axle tube

If you're removing the front diff you don't need to do anything with the rear axle . . .

 

[jeetS]

Trunk...I think he's removing the rear third and front diff to regear/lock.

 

[jonharis]

Some Quick answers, based on what I did.

I am pretty confident that I either stripped my ring or pinion gear in my front diff. I've been reading and reading, searching and reading. There's a lot of info in the 607 pages of tech articles here on mud however, I haven't been able to find much about people removing their 3rd members and front diff to send out to be regeared and locked. I would like to remove them this weekend and get them sent out. Before i do, i was hoping to find some answers to some questions that i have. Any tips, trick, help etc.. would be greatly appreciated.

1. When i remove the axles (F&R), is it necessary to replace the oil seals and snap rings?

Front, nothing needs replaced, be careful during removal not to rip a seal. If you ever put a new CV in get an assortment of snapring thicknesses to properly match.

Rear. I replaced the paper gaskets.

2. When i remove the 3rd member, do i have to completely remove the rear axles from the axle tube or can i slide them out enough to be clear of the third member so i can remove it (3rd)? (so long as i support the end of the axle as to not sit directly on the oil seal)

Correct, but removal isn't any more involved and you need to remove to replace the paper gasket.

3. The FSM states that match marks should be placed on the driveshafts and flange on the front diff and 3rd member prior to disconnecting and removal... how important is this? I ask because when i was on the trail and removing the front driveshaft, i didn't do this. Is there a proper orientation of the driveshafts?

I've removed shafts 2x on the trail and didn't place match marks. I've never had ill effects.

4. When removing the cv axles, (as per FSM), the UCA and LCA are disconnected. Is there a reason for this? Can't the UCA just be disconnected and then the steering knuckle be moved around a little to get the axle removed from the hub and inboard joint assembly out from the diff?

UCA only. Takes some love getting the CV out.

5. When i get past all this and i have removed the front diff, I have to remove the differential tube (driver's side i believe) from the case. It's held on by 4 bolts... What creates the seal? I would think there is a gasket but i don't like to assume things.

Paper gasket IIRC. RTV is fine to use because it's a non rotating part.

6. Upon reassembly of the third member once i get it back, is it only a gasket that creates the seal or is there some type of sealant like rtv that i should use in addition to the gasket?

I used RTV only, still good 2 years later.

7. When I've undone the nuts that hold in the 3rd member, is it just going to drop or will there be a significant amount of force that is required to remove it?

Mine took a bit of force, it's not very heavy but you want to support it. I used a floor jack.

8. When removing the cv axles, what do you use? back action? brass drift?

Brass drift and BFH. There is a landing groove to put the end of the drift on in both directions.

9. Is there anything that i should replace/service ect "while i'm in there"?

Gears and an ARB are always good. I don't have anything to add. diff drop?

10. Lets say, the studs that hold in the 3rd member are a little damaged by me not being mindful of where i place my diff over while wheeling (stupid rocks), is there a way to replace said studs?

Dunno

As i said... Any input, advice, help would be greatly appreciated. This is my first time doing this obviously but if i don't try it, or learn it, i'll never know how to do it.

Good Luck.

 

[3D FJ]

If you're removing the front diff you don't need to do anything with the rear axle . . .

Uh oh... did i not use the correct terminology? I thought 3rd member was reserved for rear. perhaps i'm wrong.... I am removing both front and rear gear housings.

Some Quick answers, based on what I did.

1. When i remove the axles (F&R), is it necessary to replace the oil seals and snap rings?

Front, nothing needs replaced, be careful during removal not to rip a seal. If you ever put a new CV in get an assortment of snapring thicknesses to properly match.

Rear. I replaced the paper gaskets.

There is a paper gasket where the rear axle comes out of the axle tube? Is this what you are referring to? And also, if i order the snap ring for the front from Beno, or from any toyota parts place, will they provide me with the correct thickness? Or are you talking about if i source a snap ring from an aftermarket source?

Actually, rereading your answer to my 3rd question, i understand what you are talking about with respect to the paper gasket.

7. When I've undone the nuts that hold in the 3rd member, is it just going to drop or will there be a significant amount of force that is required to remove it?

Mine took a bit of force, it's not very heavy but you want to support it. I used a floor jack.

When you mention force here, do you remember if there was a direction or a certain place that one might have to hit? (like hitting the height of contour of a new heinz ketchup bottle?)

9. Is there anything that i should replace/service ect "while i'm in there"?

Gears and an ARB are always good. I don't have anything to add. diff drop?

I installed my BIOR diff drop before i even drove out of my driveway after i put on my lift. I will be having 4.88 nitro gears installed with front and rear ARB lockers. I think i would normally want to have a shop do the work in a situation like this, but living here in the NY metro area, i really don't know of a shop that any could recommend having the work done at. Friends of mine who've done it around here to their rigs (62 and 80) have had the gears installed by chase @ eastcoast gear supply. I spoke to someone over at justdifferentials today and he was like "oh chase... he's good."

OH... one more question.... do any of you have a solid spacer installed with the gears instead of the crush washer? The person who i spoke to today at justdifferentials mentioned something about that.


Now i just have to source a 54mm socket.

 

[3D FJ]

Here's another question... do i have to remove the side gear shaft located within the front differential tube prior to removing the differential tube?

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't need the 54 mm hub socket when i'm removing the cv axles right? That's only for hub servicing?

another thing.. FSM states i should apply FIPG to the differential tube. Is that the same as RTV?

 

[jonharis]

First, Do you have the FSM? If not, here you go.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/527487-factory-service-manual-fsm.html

Uh oh... did i not use the correct terminology? I thought 3rd member was reserved for rear. perhaps i'm wrong.... I am removing both front and rear gear housings.




There is a paper gasket where the rear axle comes out of the axle tube? Is this what you are referring to? And also, if i order the snap ring for the front from Beno,Good luck ever buying anything from Beno....Ever. Call CDAN at American Toyota or from any toyota parts place, will they provide me with the correct thickness? Or are you talking about if i source a snap ring from an aftermarket source?

The snap rings are sold in various thicknesses. I would just get an assortment from CDAN and use the one that gives the proper fit per the FSM

Actually, rereading your answer to my 3rd question, i understand what you are talking about with respect to the paper gasket.





When you mention force here, do you remember if there was a direction or a certain place that one might have to hit? (like hitting the height of contour of a new heinz ketchup bottle?)


Drive the drift like you are trying to get the CV out, that's really the best way I can describe it. You won't be able to hit it head on, more like a 20 degree angle but a couple solid hits will drive it free. The CV is held in place with an internal snap ring

I installed my BIOR diff drop before i even drove out of my driveway after i put on my lift. I will be having 4.88 nitro gears installed with front and rear ARB lockers. I think i would normally want to have a shop do the work in a situation like this, but living here in the NY metro area, i really don't know of a shop that any could recommend having the work done at. Friends of mine who've done it around here to their rigs (62 and 80) have had the gears installed by chase @ eastcoast gear supply. I spoke to someone over at justdifferentials today and he was like "oh chase... he's good."

OH... one more question.... do any of you have a solid spacer installed with the gears instead of the crush washer? The person who i spoke to today at justdifferentials mentioned something about that.

Yes I have the solid spacer. It's recommended that you use one when installing an ARB.

Now i just have to source a 54mm socket. Harbor Freight or Sears. You can also get a 2 1/8"

Here's another question... do i have to remove the side gear shaft located within the front differential tube prior to removing the differential tube?

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't need the 54 mm hub socket when i'm removing the cv axles right? That's only for hub servicing?

Correct

another thing.. FSM states i should apply FIPG to the differential tube. Is that the same as RTV?

 

[3D FJ]

The CV is held in place with an internal snap ring

I'd better read up more on the cv removal. I've already removed the snap ring on the outboard side by the hub when i removed the flange. Is this snap ring on the inboard side of the hub? I didn't see anything about a second snap ring but on the outboard side of the side gear shaft located within the differential tube. This is the one i'm wondering about since it appears that i wouldn't have to remove this side gear shaft to remove the differential tube. But i may certainly be wrong.

Yes. I have the paper version of the FSM. It is so much easier for me to use than an electronic one. Thanks for the link though.

 

[spressomon]

There's a snap clip/ring that helps retain the inner CV splined shaft to the front diff. These do not need to be replaced if you are just removing/reinstalling the CV...just be sure they are in place! If you purchase new OEM CV shafts these snap clips are included.

You do not need to remove the DS extension tube and shaft to be able to drop the front diff...just the CV shafts need to be removed.

I use Permatex The Right Stuff gasket maker; works great. When you reinsert the 3rd member its a bit tricky, if you are installing with the diff housing in the vehicle, to align and stuff the 3rd into the housing without tearing/effing the paper gasket.

Also...the front ARB air locker bulkhead fitting can be installed in a couple different positions on the diff housing: On top or on the front side (horizontal)...if you have a preference be sure to let the guy/shop know that is doing the install. FWIW: Top mount bulkhead/hose fitting is more protected...but impossible to get at without lowering the front diff. FWIW #2: I opted for additional heat/abrasion protection, etc., to have a SS line made in lieu of the blue ARB air line...

And one last thing: Assuming you aren't doing the ARB locker install yourself be sure to check it with suitable PSI from an air source before you put the diff assembly back in the truck...it will save you some time if the diff guy didn't set it up properly or you happened to get a leaky seal. Doesn't happen often...but it does happen.


HTH.

 

[Mxndrnks]

One more tip relayed to the CV... I thought the thread in the FAQ is way better than the fsm. But I use both the first time. Read up there and you will be better suited when time to start pulling things.

Hth.

 

[3D FJ]

You do not need to remove the DS extension tube and shaft to be able to drop the front diff...just the CV shafts need to be removed.

I will be removing it once i drop the diff so i can have it shipped out to east coast gear supply for the work. So that's why i was wondering about if the extension tube can be removed by just taking off the 4 bolts that hold it in. As per the FSM, they talk about removing the shaft within (taking out oil seal, another snap ring etc) but it doesn't seem as if this would be necessary if i'm not servicing anything within the tube. I find that there are a lot of steps that can be circumvented in the FSM. They just don't say that though.

I use Permatex The Right Stuff gasket maker; works great. When you reinsert the 3rd member its a bit tricky, if you are installing with the diff housing in the vehicle, to align and stuff the 3rd into the housing without tearing/effing the paper gasket.

Is this stuff applied to the rear third member, AND the third memeber housing thus sandwiching the gasket?

Also...the front ARB air locker bulkhead fitting can be installed in a couple different positions on the diff housing: On top or on the front side (horizontal)...if you have a preference be sure to let the guy/shop know that is doing the install. FWIW: Top mount bulkhead/hose fitting is more protected...but impossible to get at without lowering the front diff. FWIW #2: I opted for additional heat/abrasion protection, etc., to have a SS line made in lieu of the blue ARB air line...

In what position would you recommend? I am thinking that mounting it in a more accessible location would probably be best, however, i think i'll have to look at this while i'm under there. Is the hose fitting a right angle fitting or a straight fitting? OHHHH and which clam shell is it installed in? The front or rear shell?

And one last thing: Assuming you aren't doing the ARB locker install yourself be sure to check it with suitable PSI from an air source before you put the diff assembly back in the truck...it will save you some time if the diff guy didn't set it up properly or you happened to get a leaky seal. Doesn't happen often...but it does happen.


HTH.

Suitable psi, got a number in mind? and what exactly will i be looking for? just no leaks? I would think i just can't drop it in a bucket full of water like a propane tank or spray it with soapy water correct? The good thing is that i already have a ckma12 under the hood. I just have to figure out why i've gone through 2 or 3 relays within the last few months. Never had a problem with it up until about 6 months ago or so. I've had the compressor for the last 3 years. They're sending me a new one with the lockers, but i'd rather figure out what wrong with this one.

One more tip relayed to the CV... I thought the thread in the FAQ is way better than the fsm. But I use both the first time. Read up there and you will be better suited when time to start pulling things.

Hth.

After reading everything over countless times, i have to say that the one in the FAQ seems more straight forward. I've seen this done on the trail on an FJC and it's a pretty similar process. Only thing is, i've only seen it done with a back action hammer. I really should get one (i was a harbor freight a little bit ago), for the trail as a just in case, but with removable flanges, i guess it's not the most important thing in my offroad tool kit.

I really have to say thank you to all of you who've chimed in and those who will chime in. I don't feel as if i'm going at this completely blind, although one might say that i am. I was telling spresso that the one thing that scares me the most out of this whole process is removing the rear brake line and reattaching it. I've never bled the brakes before and that's the one thing i'm most concerned about. I do know that i shouldn't let all the brake fluid drain out. That i'm sure of. If any of you have tips on this, go right ahead and lemme hear it. Hopefully tomorrow i'll have good news to report that things went smoothly. I'm going to try and take a lot of pics so i don't misplace or forget where things went. It's ok to have some extra screws when building ikea furniture... Not with the truck

 

[Mxndrnks]

I'm going to try and take a lot of pics so i don't misplace or forget where things went. It's ok to have some extra screws when building ikea furniture... Not with the truck

almost two years ago I did a complete resto on the underside including replacing abd rebuilding almost every suspension part. When you have that much torn apart, I used an old trick from when I was back in the Navy working on engines. Pick up some plastic ziplock bags. When you put nuts and bolts in one. Close it, write on the bag with a sharpy what it is... Then tape it to a the part if you can. It helps!

Good luck!

 

[spressomon]

I use Permatex The Right Stuff instead of paper gaskets for the 3rd to housing.

The ARB bulkhead fitting, on mine, is on the top...yes you'll need a 90 I think to route the air line to the pump...check the fitting thread size now so you know what type/size fitting to run down. ARB includes instructions where to drill the housing/cover...my guy ended up ignoring those instructions but worked out OK.

With a rubber tipped spray gun tight against the bulkhead fitting, where the air line connects, test it with 85-105psi (per ARB). You should not hear any air escaping. And if you do then something is wrong with the ARB set-up inside the diff. Like I said its rare but it has happened...better to know about it before you get the entire front end back together

 

[bluecruiser]

The shop should do a proper air leak test before sending the it back to you. I would absolutely make sure they do that if they are installing the ARB. My front locker has the airline bulkhead near the middle of the front aluminum diff cover...no issues with snagging on anything and I can access it, if needed.

 

[3D FJ]

Progress report: So as i predicted, things take a long time for me to accomplish whenever it relates to my truck. It's taken me 4 hours so far to remove my cv axles, drain my front diff, and remove my front diff with all associated workings. Thankfully nothing was troubling. I will admit that unbolting the front diff from the 2 mounting points on the frame weren't that easy and I removed and replaced these bolts only about a year and a half ago when i installed my diff drop.

I unbolted the steering knuckle from the UCA and i was able to remove the cv axles. I got a little nervous that i was going to tear the boot but it came out with no damage. I now understand why the FSM says to remove the knuckle from the LCA as well. Also, i couldn't find a brass drift anywhere. I will have to order one on line i guess. Instead, i used a piece of wood and my rubber mallet. It came out pretty well with that.

 

[jonharis]

Funny you say that. I used a piece of wood the first time I pulled one too.

Brass drift should be available at Sears, Harbor Freight, Ace, Tru-Value etc. all day long.

 

[kennyao30]

From just doing an ARB locker in the from of my 100. I would not put the bulkhead on the top of the diff. I had to get a 90 fabricated in order for it to fit without interference. I can tell you all the parts I used to make it work from Russell performance products and earls performance plumbing fittings. I have a slee diff drop as well which helps a slight bit.

 

[3D FJ]

Funny you say that. I used a piece of wood the first time I pulled one too.

Brass drift should be available at Sears, Harbor Freight, Ace, Tru-Value etc. all day long.

I think it's terrible that when i go into these stores, and ask if they have one, they kinda just look at me. The most common answer i get when i ask for this is "HUH?" I have to try ace next. sears and hf didn't have them. I don't think there's a tru-value by me.

 

[3D FJ]

From just doing an ARB locker in the from of my 100. I would not put the bulkhead on the top of the diff. I had to get a 90 fabricated in order for it to fit without interference. I can tell you all the parts I used to make it work from Russell performance products and earls performance plumbing fittings. I have a slee diff drop as well which helps a slight bit.

Do you happen to have a wider shot of this pic so i can reference where exactly the fitting sits? If you have that parts list, i'd definitely appreciate it.

 

[spressomon]

1/2" brass drift on Amazon...$10.50

http://www.amazon.com/Mayhew-25076-2-Inch-Knurled-Brass/dp/B002XMSBBI/?tag=ihco-20