Opinions on Rebuilding 2UZ in 2019 (1 Viewer)

[Moore80]

I've read through all the threads on replacing vs. rebuilding the 2UZ, and the general consensus is DON'T REBUILD... However, these engines are getting older, and it is becoming harder and harder to find a quality used engine at a decent price.

Question: As these engine get older, is rebuilding a good option?

Here is my current situation. I purchased a blown 99 LX470 that had they TRD Supercharger installed. The engine lost compression in cylindar #1. I am currently pulling the heads to survey the damage.

I sold the supercharger kit and purchased a "Grade A" engine with 105k miles from a reputable yard in Vermont. The engine I received was severely rusted and corroded, and after a leakdown test, showed 50% loss in 3 cylinders. Of course, none of this was disclosed prior to purchase. I paid $1500 plus shipping for this engine, and I have been pulling my hair out trying to find a better one, but everything is either high mileage, has been sitting for long periods of time, or is coming out of the rust belt. It also seems that the "low price point" of this engine is rising as the quality decreases over time.

I have a good certified mechanic friend that runs his own shop. He is not a "land cruiser" specific guy, but he is knowledgeable and honest. He suggested rebuilding the original engine, and possibly the one I purchased.

What are your thoughts? If replacement is still your vote, do you have any suggestions/ or locations on sourcing an engine?

Thanks as always for the wisdom and generosity of the Mud community!

 

[J1000]

No offense, but your first mistake was buying an engine from the east coast. If it were me, I'd put it in the truck and see how it ran. Poor leakdown could be the result of sitting in a yard for several years and after running might pick up compression. If your mechanic friend is a good enough friend to let you "help" rebuild the motor, that's always a good learning experience. The reason people usually say replace or rebuild is just because there are so many small things that can go wrong during the process, but if you have a close relationship with the mechanic and are there doing it yourself then some of those mistakes can be minimized.

Also I saw a LC 2UZ-FE on Denver Craigslist for $300 the other day.

 

[Moore80]

No offense, but your first mistake was buying an engine from the east coast. If it were me, I'd put it in the truck and see how it ran. Poor leakdown could be the result of sitting in a yard for several years and after running might pick up compression. If your mechanic friend is a good enough friend to let you "help" rebuild the motor, that's always a good learning experience. The reason people usually say replace or rebuild is just because there are so many small things that can go wrong during the process, but if you have a close relationship with the mechanic and are there doing it yourself then some of those mistakes can be minimized.

Also I saw a LC 2UZ-FE on Denver Craigslist for $300 the other day.

I completely agree with you on the east coast engine... everything looked good on paper, just not in person. The engine on craigslist is being sold by @2001LC and is a VVTi 2uz... unless you saw something different. Thanks for the reply.

In terms of the rebuild, I would be doing all the gaskets and the timing belt, and my mechanic would handle the block work.

 

[Moore80]

I also want to add that the motor I purchased also had some oil in the intake manifold.

 

[2001LC]

I also want to add that the motor I purchased also had some oil in the intake manifold.

This is normal. Oil comes from PCV and sit in pockets between the halves of intake manifold.

The 2UZ-fe (two of them) you saw in Denver CL are mine. It's $300 for a rebuild-able long block, non running engines. I'm considering rebuilding at least one. But short on space and time, so listed on CL. These are the VVT engines, and as such are not what PO needs.

I bought a GX470 engine w/98K which was a fresh "KIIL", totaled due to side impacted. It was from rust belt, but other than pitting of aluminium, no big deal. I would have preferred to find one locally. But no VVT's around here pass my close inspection. It took me months of searching.

I learned the hard way (out of pocket), to do a lot of DD before allowing shipping. Some have found one in days. It's all about timing.

Here the consensus:

• It faster and cheaper to swap in a used engine.
• Go with Japanese built. A non 100 series is more time and work swapping parts to configure for 100 series.
• A used engine is better than any of the junk rebuilt I've seen on the market. A used 2UZ Toyota engine is a great engine. Provided oil and filter regular changed. We've evidence they go more than 1 miles without using oil (smoking) and that was the USA made 2UZ-fe VVT. The issue with USA made has to do with rods breaking and position slap. But they all have the Toyota "TICK" (position slap) just USA made had more of issue.

Here is the deal on rebuilding:
Having a machine shop hone cylinders, they remove about .003 form cylinder wall. Each .001 removed, ring gap increase about .003 to .004. So now you get a gap of .009 to .012 gap increase. Modern rings ends are not filed to gap, so you get what you get with the new std OEM rings. What does this mean. You have a looser engine. I suppose one may be able to hone a maximum of .001 off by hand (not done so IDK).

Toyota does sell over sized rings and positions. Rub is, you need a really good machine shop to get bore to a perfect (vert tight fit) match. Not impossible, but hit and miss on finding a good shop.

Depending on which way one goes. It's $3K to $6K for a DIY complet rebuild job.

You can also buy a Toyota short block and heads (sold separate, no long blocks). IIRC ~$6k (VVT) for the set. But again we don't know where manufactured.


Note: It was the USA made that had issue with rods failing.

 

[Moore80]

@2001LC, thanks for the info, so it looks like continuing to look for a viable replacement is the current consensus.

 

[2001LC]

Yes, be patient and look every day. Just don't jump without looking closely. Pictures, Toyota/Lexus history by VIN # and car fax. If you find engine local, scope it also.

One thing you should do, is scope the engine you have. You may have a burnt or stuck valve. If you just pull the head, make sure you follow FSM procedure. If it is good engine/head you could damage if not disassemble by the book.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I already weighed in on your other thread, but I'll reiterate here. I say rebuild what you have. I've spent a lot of time rebuilding 20-30 year old Toyota engines. It's perfectly doable and by the time the engines are as old as they are now, it's really easy to buy a used engine that's nearly as bad as what you already had. Any engine shop worth the name on their building should be able to lightly hone or bore your cylinder walls accurately as needed. The 2UZ is a pretty tame, low stress engine. We're not talking an F1 engine here. There are plenty of performance shops in town that work on much more finicky motors than the 2UZ and I'd trust at least a few to do a good job on the 2UZ.

Eric at Peak Performance in Longmont was great to me years ago, as was AMS in Fort Collins. There was another great race shop in Denver that I used for some head/crank work a while back, but I forget their name. It was a block or two off Sante Fe.

You already have an engine. Find the failed component. If it's in the head, you can leave the pistons, rings and cylinder walls alone. Head work is relatively cheap. If you don't need to get into the block you stand a chance of a complete repair for under a grand.

I vote very strongly for rebuilding. At the very least you should determine exactly what's wrong with your current engine. It could be far easier to fix what you have than to scowl craigslist and forums for a month to ultimately still gamble on a used engine.

 

[gungriffin]

There is also Robbie of Adventure Offroad in Boulder. He has been doing 80 series engine rebuilds for a while. With many of the 80 series 1fz rebuilds, they are bored out and putting out the same HP as the supercharged engines. I don't know if he is doing 2UZ rebuilds though.

 

[2001LC]

I think it was @ponytl who first said "it faster and cheaper to do a swap than a head job. Last I spoke with Robbi he was charging $2,500, about 20 hrs labor. Dealerships are $3K to $4K. This is per side. Arguments are made for doing both side.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against recommending a rebuild. It would be a learning adventure for sure. It would also be the first I know of the 2UZ. I recall only one member member saying he "knew" of someone that rebuild one. But his story fell flat, when he said his buddy regular rebuilds his 2UZ as a PM, RIGHT!.

I've been considering blueprinting one of my 2UZ-fe VVT and possibly building with aftermarket high end parts to handle boost. Stuff like high end rods. It would be my first rebuild on a 2UZ and only one I know ever done. I'm selling parts from my engine(s) on shop floor (07 2UZ, 4runner and GX470 leftovers) now just to make room. I'm working on heating and insulating in my garage and everything is in my way PITA to keep moving.

The diagnose of what is wrong with OP (@Moore80) engine has been lacking any specifics. But it did have a SC on it, so a bent rod is likely. But could just be top end job like valve or even head gasket. I've recommended a few times he scope it, even offered my scope. It's okay for looking at cylinder walls and piston tops, but falls short for valves. I'll also " here now" recommend he measure travel of piston to check for bent rod.

But engine swap is easier, there are good ones around and more become available every day:
When I did the engine swap in the Unicorn a VVT. I first struggled with rebuilding so it would have all matching serial numbers. It had over-heating and coolant was in oil. So in the end, it was much better time and cost wise to do a swap. Those that have read my post know I over researched the issue of which engine to use and why. I did this while hunting, this time last year, for and engine (my second at the time) This was the VVT engine which is harder to find in a 100 series and more costly. Even so I found a very good one with perfect records delivery to my door for ~$2,200 from a yard in WI. The first engine I bough locally, I did not inspect close enough. It was and 08 4Runner with 130K miles. It had everything including transmission with it. Only thing missing was alternator. Seller from CL delivered to my door for $500 total. Unfortunately someone washed, left exposed to weather and water got in heads/cylinders. It's a very good rebuild candidate, but not what I wanted. I considered rebuilding it and ran the cost along with pros and cons. It would have cost more and possible yield a looser engine. I came to realize it was not just my work but the work of the machine shop that would determine my final product. Sure I could get it to spec. If I was very picked, carefully and worked closely with machine shop I may get near perfect results or close to it. But cost of a full rebuild was hitting over $4K.

The cost of buying short block and heads new OEM and parts need was near ~$6K. And we do not know if OEM block and heads from are Japan.

 

[Moore80]

Thanks for the info @2001LC. I'm currently pulling the valve covers and heads this weekend. I also just got a scope, and am planning on doing a leakdown this weekend. I'll post information as I get it.

 

[YardPig]

Nobody will get it perfect, except factory assembled Toyota.
I'm with @2001LC , swap in a good motor and be done with it. You guys seem to want to find some unicorn 50k motor, at triple or quadruple that mileage these motors are still not even broken in. Most previous owners change the oil, other then that, what's to go wrong that you won't be doing as full service when it's on the hoist?
The cost to rebuild with OEM parts is cost prohibitive. The rebuild is only as good as the rebuilder. If you want to roll the dice with inferior aftermarket, have at it.

 

[2001LC]

You can also measure piston travel by dropping (long screw driver) measuring rod down spark plug hole. Turn crank with all spark plugs out for easy turning. Then measuring rod will move up and down as you turn the crank. You then very very very carefully measure the travel. Compare it to book or other pistons travel. They should all be the same down to ~.001

You can use compressed air attach to leak down tester or compression tester hose, tap into spark plug hole(s). Then listen for air coming from oil fill neck which indicates rings, intake valve leak at intake port since you've manifold off, exhaust pipe for exhaust valve leak. You will hear air escape at oil fill neck on each cylinder, so do each cylinder to hear difference.

 

[J1000]

The block should be the same between VVT and non, and a head swap is much easier.

I saw some crazy high prices for cylinder head rebuilds in this thread. I just dropped off a 4 cylinder head for a race rebuild and valve job and it's gonna be less than $400. Can't imagine paying $2500 for two heads.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Piston travel remains the same with a bent rod, doesn't it? I think you'd want to measure distance from piston surface at TDC to a consistent reference point (like the top of the spark plug hole, perhaps).

The block should be the same between VVT and non, and a head swap is much easier.

I saw some crazy high prices for cylinder head rebuilds in this thread. I just dropped off a 4 cylinder head for a race rebuild and valve job and it's gonna be less than $400. Can't imagine paying $2500 for two heads.

I agree. The prices stated here are higher than anything I've ever experienced myself. I've done a lot of Toyota head work (or had it done at a shop). The most I ever paid was around $1000 and that was for a used 7M (inline 6) head, full cleaning, 3 angle valve job, stem seal replacement, milling the gasket surface flat and a pressure test. For a simple repair you wouldn't need to do all that. The least I paid was around $180 for a simple clean, mill flat and pressure test.

Maybe the 2UZ is the Ferrari engine of the SUV market and it's totally different than the 7M and 1JZ/2JZ of the Supra world, but that seems unlikely. Those Supra engines I mention are rebuilt allllllllll the time successfully. It requires a small bit more precision and care than your standard 350 small block Chevy, but they're still just iron block motors. I don't know why the 2UZ would be any different aside from the fact that it's relatively new and reliable so many shops just haven't seen many yet.

 

[2001LC]

Piston travel remains the same with a bent rod, doesn't it? I think you'd want to measure distance from piston surface at TDC to a consistent reference point (like the top of the spark plug hole, perhaps).

***.

Your right! I worded that poorly. It's just the travel at the top. If rod bent it would come up shorter then others.

The block should be the same between VVT and non, and a head swap is much easier.

I saw some crazy high prices for cylinder head rebuilds in this thread. I just dropped off a 4 cylinder head for a race rebuild and valve job and it's gonna be less than $400. Can't imagine paying $2500 for two heads.

*****

I agree. The prices stated here are higher than anything I've ever experienced myself. I've done a lot of Toyota head work (or had it done at a shop). The most I ever paid was around $1000 and that was for a used 7M (inline 6) head, full cleaning, 3 angle valve job, stem seal replacement, milling the gasket surface flat and a pressure test. For a simple repair you wouldn't need to do all that. The least I paid was around $180 for a simple clean, mill flat and pressure test.

Maybe the 2UZ is the Ferrari engine of the SUV market and it's totally different than the 7M and 1JZ/2JZ of the Supra world, but that seems unlikely. Those Supra engines I mention are rebuilt allllllllll the time successfully. It requires a small bit more precision and care than your standard 350 small block Chevy, but they're still just iron block motors. I don't know why the 2UZ would be any different aside from the fact that it's relatively new and reliable so many shops just haven't seen many yet.

You're both comparing a head (gasket) job of ~$2,500, to machine shop time. My statement of $2,500 was in reference to Robbie (Adventure Offroad in Boulder) a mechanic shop not a machine shop. I happen to speak with him about a year ago with respect to LH head gasket job he did on an 05LC. As I recall he had charged $2,500. Which t-belt must come off, along with intake & exhaust manifolds and water by-pass joints. I brought this up, just to give some sense of labor involved in head job.

2,500 for machining a head, even two heads with the "complet works", would be way out of line IMO. Quot for machine shop run from milling at $45, for the works up to ~$500 ea. in 16 valve head with buckets and shims. I mention shims because of up charge for adjusting valve gap.

~$3K to $4K is what I've heard at various Dealership charge for head job (not machine shop). The variation runs from just head gasket to head replacement.

Machine shop is different as you both know. @suprarx7nut the $1K you quote for a 6 cylinder head is highest I've ever heard of.

Like I said; it was @ponytl that I first said it easy to swap engine than do a head job. It's has been generally agree too by others here in mud.

I've not done a head job, but have done an engine (non 100 to 100 series 2UZ) swap. I'll let yo know which I think easier after I do a head job.

Hey I'm not saying he shouldn't do a head job, if that is all it is. Heck it could just be a stuck valve. Personally I'd do a very detailed diagnosis, then run the numbers. My decision would be based on what is cost effective and yield the best results.

 

[half k cruiser]

I don't get it, you haven't even pulled the current motor apart or performed a leak down test ? For all you know you could have a burned out valve or a blown out HG, either one completely fixable. Neither of these would warrant an entire motor rebuild or swap.

 

[Moore80]

I don't get it, you haven't even pulled the current motor apart or performed a leak down test ? For all you know you could have a burned out valve or a blown out HG, either one completely fixable. Neither of these would warrant an entire motor rebuild or swap.

I'm working on that now. I'm not sure if I said this in this post, but I'm a first timer on a project like this... and I took it on knowing that I would be asking a lot of questions and learning through the process. The first engine I bought was a quick purchase after checking on the service records and yard reputation... all before the blown LX and engine were delivered to my house. That decision was based on very little knowledge of the issue with the engine, and also very little knowledge of engine repair in general.

I've started to learn more and more about this engine, especially now that I've made some mistakes and started asking different questions.

 

[Moore80]

Guys, thanks for all of the responses and load of info so far.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Your right! I worded that poorly. It's just the travel at the top. If rod bent it would come up shorter then others.





You're both comparing a head (gasket) job of ~$2,500, to machine shop time. My statement of $2,500 was in reference to Robbie (Adventure Offroad in Boulder) a mechanic shop not a machine shop. I happen to speak with him about a year ago with respect to LH head gasket job he did on an 05LC. As I recall he had charged $2,500. Which t-belt must come off, along with intake & exhaust manifolds and water by-pass joints. I brought this up, just to give some sense of labor involved in head job.

2,500 for machining a head, even two heads with the "complet works", would be way out of line IMO. Quot for machine shop run from milling at $45, for the works up to ~$500 ea. in 16 valve head with buckets and shims. I mention shims because of up charge for adjusting valve gap.

~$3K to $4K is what I've heard at various Dealership charge for head job (not machine shop). The variation runs from just head gasket to head replacement.

Machine shop is different as you both know. @suprarx7nut the $1K you quote for a 6 cylinder head is highest I've ever heard of.

Like I said; it was @ponytl that I first said it easy to swap engine than do a head job. It's has been generally agree too by others here in mud.

I've not done a head job, but have done an engine (none 100 to 100 series 2UZ) swap. I'll let yo know which I think easier after I do a head job.

Hey I'm not saying he shouldn't do a head job, if that is all it is. Heck it could just be a stuck valve. Personally I'd do a very detailed diagnosis, then run the numbers. My decision would be based on what is cost effective and yield the best results.

If he's talking about pulling the motors and swapping himself, I think it's safe to say he'd pull a head himself as well. That's why I was comparing machinist costs and not full-service, "tow-in, drive out" mechanic costs. I guess I was just assuming any full-service mechanic jobs were out of the question here.

FWIW, On my "$1000 head job", I just looked up my records. It was $870 and included a used head, ARP studs, three angle valve job, stem seals, mill, clean and pressure test. If you take out the head and ARP studs I guess it was only ~$500 or so. Only proves my rebuild point further, I think.

I'm working on that now. I'm not sure if I said this in this post, but I'm a first timer on a project like this... and I took it on knowing that I would be asking a lot of questions and learning through the process. The first engine I bought was a quick purchase after checking on the service records and yard reputation... all before the blown LX and engine were delivered to my house. That decision was based on very little knowledge of the issue with the engine, and also very little knowledge of engine repair in general.

I've started to learn more and more about this engine, especially now that I've made some mistakes and started asking different questions.

Everyone's gotta start somewhere and the best way to learn is to screw up. If it all goes perfectly you don't learn nearly as much. I'm looking forward to hearing how the inspection goes!