onboard air vs. co2
- Thread starter dawgdaze
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I use Jody's Outback air system. I am real happy with it. I like the fact that it has compression fittings so if the hose breaks I can fix it on the trail. Also, the hose is long enough that I can fill all 4 tires with out having to take the tank out of its bracket.
Well, my lazy ass will eventually get around to instaling the York/Saginaw combo I got off a donor Volvo, but I'm going to get a C02 setup, too. Its just too damn easy to tote around, and it makes a great shielding gas for you MIG for those times you run out... 
OBA is ok,however,it is a dedicated system. CO2 is portable and versitle.Run air tools,bleed brakes, even keep the beer cold!! I got Jody's OUTBACK AIR system and
am impressed by the quality. Looks like he is also giving FREE SHIPPING now.
I had to drive all the way to Oklahoma City for mine!!! Just kidding,Jody!
If you decide on CO2,you'll wonder how you ever got by without it.Oh yeah,you can even use it to inflate tires.A LOT of tires
am impressed by the quality. Looks like he is also giving FREE SHIPPING now.
I had to drive all the way to Oklahoma City for mine!!! Just kidding,Jody!
If you decide on CO2,you'll wonder how you ever got by without it.Oh yeah,you can even use it to inflate tires.A LOT of tires
I run homemade CO2 and most of my trucks and love it. Biggest issue I have is that with air tools it get too cold to run for long. not a big issue most of the time. If you have one truck or want real air power go here http://www.oasisoffroad.com/productMenu.html if ya got thick plastic you can get the the best available. 40 series are easy to add OBA to. not worth the trouble on later models when Co2 and oasis is out there.
Velodrome (bicycle) racers used to run helium... or so I was told by someone once. Apparently the difference was big enough to matter to them.
As for weight...
according to http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae650.cfm the weight/ft3 of air is approx: .0807 lbs
C02, according to http://www.weldingsupply.net/carbon.htm weighs in at .1144 lbs/ft3
Both of those are at STP.
so, before you pump your tire full of either stuff, the difference in weight is nearly +50% for the C02
I don't know what the volume of a tire is- never tried to measure it. But any easy test for someone who owns a scale (I don't, so can't do it, sorry) would be to go out and weigh an empty tire (mounted) then fill 'er up with air and weigh again. If one used CO2, the difference in weight would be nearly 50% higher.
Again- if any chemists/physicists out there want to go to the trouble to figure out the difference in density curves of CO2 vs. air and whatnot, someone could make this a lot more accurate...
or if someone would just fill a tire with Air, weigh it, then fill with CO2... they could tell us how much of an issue or non-issue this really is.
For me, its easy, I can't get C02 without driving an hour away and I've already got an onboard compressor.
As for weight...
according to http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae650.cfm the weight/ft3 of air is approx: .0807 lbs
C02, according to http://www.weldingsupply.net/carbon.htm weighs in at .1144 lbs/ft3
Both of those are at STP.
so, before you pump your tire full of either stuff, the difference in weight is nearly +50% for the C02
I don't know what the volume of a tire is- never tried to measure it. But any easy test for someone who owns a scale (I don't, so can't do it, sorry) would be to go out and weigh an empty tire (mounted) then fill 'er up with air and weigh again. If one used CO2, the difference in weight would be nearly 50% higher.
Again- if any chemists/physicists out there want to go to the trouble to figure out the difference in density curves of CO2 vs. air and whatnot, someone could make this a lot more accurate...
or if someone would just fill a tire with Air, weigh it, then fill with CO2... they could tell us how much of an issue or non-issue this really is.
For me, its easy, I can't get C02 without driving an hour away and I've already got an onboard compressor.
Is this correct? I'm no math whiz... it seems there is .0337 (3 hundredths of lb/ft3) difference. so there would have to be 50 lb/ft3 of area to make 1.5lb/ft3 difference...?
I race bicycles and no one uses helium. sandcruiser is right, back in the day in short track events they used to but helium in bicycles doesn't work too well because it can pass right through latex or racing innertubes so the tire begins to deflate very quickly. use a thicker tube and you loose the advantage of helium. I think you loose 5 grams using helium in tubes but ever since carbon wheels and bike technology, I don't think anyone does that anymore.
I carry CO2 for flats on the bike. For racing, helium would deflate before an event would be over so a soft tire would be a serious disadvantage over 5 grams. I think 5g is the weight of a couple doritos.
I race bicycles and no one uses helium. sandcruiser is right, back in the day in short track events they used to but helium in bicycles doesn't work too well because it can pass right through latex or racing innertubes so the tire begins to deflate very quickly. use a thicker tube and you loose the advantage of helium. I think you loose 5 grams using helium in tubes but ever since carbon wheels and bike technology, I don't think anyone does that anymore.
I carry CO2 for flats on the bike. For racing, helium would deflate before an event would be over so a soft tire would be a serious disadvantage over 5 grams. I think 5g is the weight of a couple doritos.
Ok, dumb question... Outback air... how many tires will it fill? Where do you get refills?
One nice thing about C02 is it does not contain moisture and more importantly no Ozone witch can deteriorate the rubber of tires, probably not a real problem though as I would think most here wear the thread long before they rot
Aircraft use nitrogen, cannot remember why. Unfortunately it does not liquefy under pressure at room temperature like CO2 does so storing the same weight of nitrogen takes a lot more space
Aircraft use nitrogen, cannot remember why. Unfortunately it does not liquefy under pressure at room temperature like CO2 does so storing the same weight of nitrogen takes a lot more space
Skilter said:
Not a dumb question at all! Mine lasted enough to air up and down about 30 35" tires, but bear in mind that I run a heavy wagon, so 10 PSI on the trail is pretty low for me. Bigger tires and/or running them at much lower pressures will shorten the life of the tank.
I get refills at my local welder supply store, AirGas. They charge $9.50 to fill it up and do it in 15 minutes, pretty painless process.
haystax said:
(Just saw this revived thread....)
I have a fire extinguisher nozzle on my CO2 tank. I tested it as a fire extinguisher and it works though not in the same way as a dedicated CO2 extinguisher. A CO2 tank releases evaporated CO2 gas by having the valve at the top. A CO2 extinguisher releases CO2 liquid by having a tube that stays in the bottom of the tank. You could invert a CO2 tank and accomplish the same thing.
CO2 as a fire suppression system has advantages over the A/B/C chemical extinguishers in that it doesn't create the mess and the chemical released (CO2) is non-corrosive; unlike the chemical extinguishers.
My biggest issue with CO2 is refilling and the inherant waste. If you have a single 10# tank and you've used a portion of it around the garage and on a couple of trips, then you have to refill before it is empty or risk running out when filling your tyres or your buddies tyres.
I have an OBA system with two of the cheapie GM compressors. I am replacing those compressors with an ExtremeAir 3/4 hp compressor. I'm using a 6 gal tank. The OBA will be primary for most uses and the CO2 will be backup and for portable use.
-B-
Throttleman_610 said:
10# tank. ~12 35" tyres from 14 to 35psi.
Throttleman_610 said:
Yes, if the 10# tank is more than half full.
Throttleman_610 said:
Varies by location. In my city it's $13 for a 10#; about the same for a 20#.
-B-