OME 866 vs. AirLift Bags for rear

[Phx99Cruiser]

Yes...I did a search of this forum for every permutation of "air", "lift" and "bags"

I have the 865 rear and front OME torsion bars with HD OME shocks installed. Sits ok unloaded, sags a bit too much loaded w/camping gear. Same old story...

My internal dilemma is whether to:
a) upgrade to OME 866 rear springs ($150), or
b) leave the 865's and install AirLift bags ($85)

spressomon ordered a set of AirLift bags from Slee in Oct. 05, but I could not find his thoughts anytime after . I also found mention that the suggested part #60728 are too short and to go with#60755, is this correct?

With the OME 866, does it hold its height (not sag) so quickly like the 865?

Thanks.

 

[spressomon]

Yes...I did a search of this forum for every permutation of "air", "lift" and "bags"

I have the 865 rear and front OME torsion bars with HD OME shocks installed. Sits ok unloaded, sags a bit too much loaded w/camping gear. Same old story...

My internal dilemma is whether to:
a) upgrade to OME 866 rear springs ($150), or
b) leave the 865's and install AirLift bags ($85)

spressomon ordered a set of AirLift bags from Slee in Oct. 05, but I could not find his thoughts anytime after . I also found mention that the suggested part #60728 are too short and to go with#60755, is this correct?

With the OME 866, does it hold its height (not sag) so quickly like the 865?

Thanks.

I ended up not going with the air bags; I did not want the psi maintenance when not carrying a load and I use my rig 50+% on-trail and did not want the rear suspension to suffer. If most of your use is off-trail and gravel roads you will be happy with the 866's.

 

[farinvail]

You could always put in trim packers. Designed to level left or rt. But can give up to 15mm. I did 10mm. Available from Man-a-fre. Listed as a product for 80 series but rear springs are the same. Are you sure 865? not 863? Airbags will reduce your upward articulation compared to springs, IMO.

 

[SINCITY100]

The 866`s are great for running with occasional/temporary added cargo (more-so if you have a 3rd party rear bumper) and they`ll also help prevent the rear from bottoming out as easy on rougher roads when heavily loaded.


However..They will not work very well if you add a lot of permanent weight to your rig, and then you pack a ton of camping equipment in back/top .

 

[dinibili]

I have a 2005 TD LC with the AHC and had trouble with the AHC after adding front and rear bars and winch and then loading the vehicle with either 7 people or after 3.2T GVM. The vehicle went into droopy mode. I removed the rear springs and replaced them with Airbags. Have had no trouble since and the AHC works perfectly. By mucking about with heavier coils and or add on air cells you will have no end of trouble with your AHC, if you have it. Also, I believe, fitting heavier coils is always a matter of compromise. Good when loaded, not so go when unladened, or visa versa.

I run about 15psi round & about and when I head out travelling loaded I just add another about 5 psi-takes abour 30 seconds.

Donald (on the Rock)
2006 79 series RV LC with Front ARB Delux Bar and 12000lb Winch for work,
2005 Sahara TD (??AHC??), Sat Nav, ARB Front & Rear Bars, Rear Wheel Carrier, 12000lb Warn Winch, Tanami Drawers, rear Bag Boy Airbags, NGT Codan HF Radio and a Tvan, all for play.

 

[Phx99Cruiser]

Sorry, should have added my TLC is a '99 (no AHC) and yes I'm positive I have the medium-duty 865 springs. I don't have anything extra on the back of the LC (no drawers, after-market bumper, etc.). Probably 95% of my driving is in-town with 5-6 camping trips a year. At those times the back area (and roof rack) are loaded.

I'm also unsure if the spring lengths are different between the 865 and 866 (I thought Man-a-Fre or Cruiser Outfitters had a comparison chart...) - would I need a trim-pack for the 866's? I want some degree of rake back-to-front like it has now is ok...

 

[e9999]

obviously, if you have a given spring you're locked into a specific weight/height relationship. Cannot possibly give you the height you want with all possible loads. Airbags give you an infinite number of possibilities. No question the latter is way more versatile.

OTOH, in real life, the given spring thing is not as bad as it may sound at first. I run HD springs in the rear on the 80. The ride is a bit harsher when empty but not objectionable, plus I'm really never empty anyway (always carry all my tools). When I'm really heavily loaded (trailer plus full in and on roof rack, the rear is lower than the front by about 1". Not that bad. Plus it's really only on asphalt or graded dirt since as soon as I get to camp and will hit the trails, I've already unloaded everything and I'm back up to normal height for the trails.

Altogether, I may eventually put on airbags but more for fun than sheer necessity.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I'm pro OME-863 IF you have an aftermarket rear bumper.

With a stock bumper those 866's might do the trick.

 

[cruisermon]

I'm also unsure if the spring lengths are different between the 865 and 866 (I thought Man-a-Fre or Cruiser Outfitters had a comparison chart...)

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/tech_OME_coils.html

 

[DMX84]

I ended up not going with the air bags; I did not want the psi maintenance when not carrying a load and I use my rig 50+% on-trail and did not want the rear suspension to suffer. If most of your use is off-trail and gravel roads you will be happy with the 866's.

+1 for me, you may have seen some info about my quest for the perfect setup.

The airbags will work great for different situations ….but it requires a lot of maintenance. It’s been my experience in the RV industry that if you let them go low, then they pinch & wear out. The setup I looked at getting wanted me to drill a larger hole in the spring perch on the bottom. That was the last straw for me and sent them back.
I talked to Christo Slee later, and he said the hole that is already in the spring perch was adequate IHO.
DMX

 

[dclee]

+1 for me, you may have seen some info about my quest for the perfect setup.

The airbags will work great for different situations ….but it requires a lot of maintenance. It’s been my experience in the RV industry that if you let them go low, then they pinch & wear out. The setup I looked at getting wanted me to drill a larger hole in the spring perch on the bottom. That was the last straw for me and sent them back.
I talked to Christo Slee later, and he said the hole that is already in the spring perch was adequate IHO.
DMX

This is true on the 80 and I assume the 100 as well. I put a set of bags in our `97 Collector's Edition before we sold it, and did not have to drill or enlarge anything. Very nice setup. As far as the maintenance, you're correct, let them get too low for too long and they could develop problems. But if you get their Load Controller II setup with the air compressor and sensor, the system will sense when you are too low and automatically add air as appropriate to keep you at a minimum level. It works very well, and is basically a "set it and forget it" system. I have a set waiting to go into the 100.

 

[Adam R]

I've got to disagree with most others on this post. I run airbags on a heavily modified Jeep TJ and have found no downside to running airbags off-road or on-road. I've just recieved a set of airbags for our 100 and will be installing soon.

With a custom drawer system (no rear seat) and a reciever rack to carry extra gear. I've driven the Jeep fully loaded with 500 lbs of stuff from Virginia to Moab twice and it's great for leveling the rig with 20lbs of air. Empty I run 7lbs.

Ocassionally I need to add a little air, but only about every 6 months. They have been in for nearly 4 years now. I wouldn't consider this high maintenance and I adjust pressure if I plan on loading it down.

If the bags are properly sized for height, they should provide minimal weight support at 5lbs and won't impact off-road ability. I actually like them because it's nearly impossible to bottom out with them in.


Adam

 

[spressomon]

I've got to disagree with most others on this post. I run airbags on a heavily modified Jeep TJ and have found no downside to running airbags off-road or on-road. I've just recieved a set of airbags for our 100 and will be installing soon.

With a custom drawer system (no rear seat) and a reciever rack to carry extra gear. I've driven the Jeep fully loaded with 500 lbs of stuff from Virginia to Moab twice and it's great for leveling the rig with 20lbs of air. Empty I run 7lbs.

Ocassionally I need to add a little air, but only about every 6 months. They have been in for nearly 4 years now. I wouldn't consider this high maintenance and I adjust pressure if I plan on loading it down.

If the bags are properly sized for height, they should provide minimal weight support at 5lbs and won't impact off-road ability. I actually like them because it's nearly impossible to bottom out with them in.


Adam

Interesting. You are the first one I have heard from with positive or neutral feedback when off-roading with these. SIN...why don't you try them again and let me know how they work for you ?!

 

[dinibili]

I suspect the issue with air bags, pinching and low pressures is mainly with helper/assist airbags. Full repacement bags are less likely to pinch under normal circumstances, as they dont have the coils around them to cause the problem. In terms of maintenance, you would check the pressures probably as often as you would the tyres on the vehicle.

Donald (on the Rock)

2006 79 series RV LC with Front ARB Delux Bar and 12000lb Winch for work,
2005 Sahara TD (??AHC??), Sat Nav, ARB Front & Rear Bars, Rear Wheel Carrier, 12000lb Warn Winch, Tanami Drawers, rear Bag Boy Airbags, NGT Codan HF Radio and a Tvan, all for play.

 

[100 TD]

If you do a search you will see dinibili is running total air bags like on trucks, that is, no springs at all just bags, do a search of his previous posts and I'm sure you will find some interesting info and pictures. He may be able to give us all an update on how they have been going if we ask him nicely. Hey Donald, give us the lowdown on your travels with them please!
100 TD

 

[DMX84]

I would agree a full out airbag would be better than the helper springs. He also has the air system that keeps them inflated to what ever he wants them at. The auto air control is a good feature and would eliminate having to check the air on helper bags.
The other thing I didn’t like about the brand of bags I was going to use had the air hose coming out at the bottom and didnt want that hanging down low.
The nicest thing about the full airbag setup, is you can lay frame!
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=626660553
DMX

 

[spressomon]

I would agree a full out airbag would be better than the helper springs. He also has the air system that keeps them inflated to what ever he wants them at. The auto air control is a good feature and would eliminate having to check the air on helper bags.
The other thing I didn’t like about the brand of bags I was going to use had the air hose coming out at the bottom and didnt want that hanging down low.
The nicest thing about the full airbag setup, is you can lay frame!
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=626660553
DMX

Always somethin' new...love to see the look on tailgaters when the sparks start flying

 

[dclee]

Hopefully they're more reliable than Range Rover air springs. Those would wear and get punctured and leave their owners stranded. Apparently it's common in the Rover world to replace these with real steel coil springs for reliability. Of course, I don't know who actually builds those air springs for them. If it's Land Rover itself, then that would explain a lot...

 

[dinibili]

I would agree a full out airbag would be better than the helper springs. He also has the air system that keeps them inflated to what ever he wants them at. The auto air control is a good feature and would eliminate having to check the air on helper bags.
The other thing I didn’t like about the brand of bags I was going to use had the air hose coming out at the bottom and didnt want that hanging down low.
The nicest thing about the full airbag setup, is you can lay frame!
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=626660553
DMX

The Airbags (Firestone) I fitted had the hoses coming out the top, through a hole that was already in the coil spring tower. There was no cutting and shutting involved, just undo the top & bottom bolts and turf the spring and rebound rubber and fit top and bottom plates that support the bag and then fit the bag to the plates. I have the hose coonection for air supply coming out to an area covered by the opening portion of an ARB rear wheel carrier.

The vehicle has done about 20K kms since fitting and have caused me no grief. Not alot of ks, but it is all on gravel (stoney/rocky) roads. I wouldn't replace coils with coils. As I have said, I believe coils will always be a compromise unless the vehicle is constantly laiden/unlaiden.

Donald (on the Rock)

2006 79 series RV LC with Front ARB Delux Bar and 12000lb Winch for work,
2005 Sahara TD (??AHC??), Sat Nav, ARB Front & Rear Bars, Rear Wheel Carrier, 12000lb Warn Winch, Tanami Drawers, rear Bag Boy Airbags, NGT Codan HF Radio and a Tvan, all for play.

 

[Greg B]

Hopefully they're more reliable than Range Rover air springs. Those would wear and get punctured and leave their owners stranded. Apparently it's common in the Rover world to replace these with real steel coil springs for reliability. Of course, I don't know who actually builds those air springs for them. If it's Land Rover itself, then that would explain a lot...

This is Soooo true! I crossed over from the LR community with the 100 a couple years back. I was very involved on a couple of Discovery Series 2 forums and email lists. I used to hear all the time about guys with Disco Series 2's that would have airbag failures.

On the D2, the rear suspension could have optional airbags instead of coil springs (mine had coils) and guys would load their D2's up, go out on a trail, and then the airbags would crap out. They would literally be sitting on their bumpstops on the rear axle. No way, would I ever rely strictly on an airbag in an offroad vehicle. If I remember correctly, it was tied to the electronic sensors and the compressor that controlled the airbags, because it always caused both airbags to lose pressure at the same time. Typical LR reliability problems.

Nothing beats a quality set of coil springs; comfortable and dependable.