New guy New rig--Confusing vibration problem--CV issue?

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R

Rot Box

10 Year
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Threads
6
Messages
50
Location
Utah!
Hello everyone sorta new here and hope you don't mind me asking some questions. Tonight I picked up a 1998 100 series on a whim and I'm starting to kick myself royally for it :doh: Its supposed to be a good feeling when you buy a new rig and now I'm starting to think I failed miserably lol.

During the test ride everything seemed ok but I never drove faster than 35mph which was an obvious mistake. At this point I get a horrid vibration grrrrrrinnnnggg rrrraaarrrrrrringg noise that seems to come and go and is most noticeable at 55-65 mph but can sometimes be felt as slow as 20mph. It went away completely a few times while driving down the canyon with my foot off the gas. No shaking through the steering wheel, no pulling in either direction and it feels a lot like an out of balance driveshaft.

I took the front driveshaft out and went for a test drive and it slightly went away. I inspected both driveshafts and the u-joints feel great with no slop or looseness and they are in phase.

Here's what I noticed. I can wiggle the inner bells of the CV's (I'm not sure what they're called) quite a bit--should these move at all? Is there a chance that these are not tight in the spline and therefor wallowing around?

The rig has OME springs and torsion bars with 315 sized Dunlop tires that seem to have worn nicely. The front diff has an ARB locker installed and the po said it had the Slee diff drop. The CV's are brand new and they were purchased at NAPA.

I'm thinking it might be the CV's but I really don't have a clue. Really frustrated and would really appreciate some guidance thanks,

Andrew
 
Instead of a Grrrr---Rarrrr sound its more like the sound of the bass from the subwoofer in the car next to you at a traffic light--that pretty much describes it perfectly :eek:
 
See some of my posts and my experience with a 2.5 OME lift. Your front CVs may be an issue. Your front end may also be raised too much. Do a search on here for how to measure rake and droop and post your numbers here. The regulars here can probably help you.

Are you getting any torque steer (pulling to the right under heavy acceleration)?
 
The axle shafts should not be loose and should fit tight into the the diff. Suggest you address this issue first and not waste any time. Today would work. It sounds like the axle shaft splines grinding on the diff gear. The installer may not have realized you have seat both shafts will some effort. Should inspect both for possible damage before putting them back. Drain fluid and check for metal shavings.

If you are planning on doing it yourself there is an excellent writeup in FAQ that will take you step by step. Not difficult for most.

Others might have additional info that will assist but this needs immediate attention to avoid severe damage. It sounds like the axle shafts were just replaced so you should be ok once they have been installed properly.

Stand by as you will get some good info and advice.
 
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Did you buy this from a private seller? If not, take it back to what ever dealer you got it from and demand they fix it.

The first problem is you have Napa cv's. Napa cv's are known for failing. I would highly suggest thinking about getting some OEM cv axles to replace those or become very familiar with how to get home when they do fail. Right now, I would pull both cv's and inspect them. If one is bad, it should be easy to tell. Also check the diff oil for metal.
 
Mxndrnks said:
Did you buy this from a private seller? If not, take it back to what ever dealer you got it from and demand they fix it.

The first problem is you have Napa cv's. Napa cv's are known for failing. I would highly suggest thinking about getting some OEM cv axles to replace those or become very familiar with how to get home when they do fail. Right now, I would pull both cv's and inspect them. If one is bad, it should be easy to tell. Also check the diff oil for metal.
Click to expand...

What? How about some accountability from the purchaser? Not that I don't feel for you OP but it was dumb just driving it around the block.

What maintenance has or hasn't been done on it?
 
Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone I really appreciate the help especially since I am new. phsycle, this is the 98 that was on KSL for awhile. It has high miles however it does have a detailed history of maintenance and it looks to have been well cared for which makes me happy. After the initial buyers remorse I cleared my head and realized that this is a small price to pay. If I do need shafts and a rebuild on the differential it will still be worth it to me. I can do all the work myself which should help I just need to get a little more familiar with it.

OK for starters I have not taken any serious measurements yet but I will. I did unload the torsion bars quite a bit (they were really cranked up!) which seemed to help. If I take a pry bar and lightly pry against the CV and the front differential I can get the CV to move a lot and it is coming from the splines. The drivers side does it but not nearly as bad. I popped it out of the diff and snapped it back in to ensure it is in all the way. No pulling to either side under heavy acceleration.

I'm convinced it is a CV inner spline issue (the rest of the CV feels great) whether it be on the CV itself or the splines inside the carrier either way there is a lot of slop there and the seal is leaking a small amount of oil. Does the passenger side CV slide directly into the splines on the ARB or is there an intermediate shaft between the two? What about the driver side? The ARB was recently installed my Allpro offroad based of what the po said. I'm just wondering if there is a support bearing anywhere in there or if it is the differential carrier bearings that support the CV axle. Does that make sense?

I'm going to drain the fluid and pull the shafts now. I'm really hoping it is just a crappy spline on the CV but we'll see. Hopefully the ARB didn't get wiped out :crybaby: Thanks again everyone.

Andrew
 
The CV pulled out great. Very straight forward and fairly simple procedure. Even searching around the NAPA CV's have a bad reputation I'd better do something about that.

Overall everything looked good. Oil looked like dirty breakin-oil but free from anything alarming. Out of curiousity I went out and wiggled the cv's on my 00 4runner (which makes no noise) and they have more movement than the 100! :rolleyes: Maybe thats normal? I just don't know.

My wife can't hear it... Maybe I'm up in the night. Could be the 315 Dunlop muds I guess I've just never heard anything like this come from a tire.

I think I ruled the cv out I guess its time to pull out the tape measure and check all my angles/heights and an alignment couldn't hurt either.

Stoopid Newbies :deadhorse:
 
I would try balancing all of the wheels and tires.
These vehicles are very sensitive to tire balance, especially the front, and especially if you are running oversized mud tires..
If your front wheels are even slightly out of balance, you will feel vibration (bass) at high speeds.

My 2000 had a horrible vibration at >50 mph, and balancing all 4 wheels fixed it completely.

Try balancing the wheels and tires before you get too far into tearing the driveline apart.
Hope this helps.
 
Could be a missing Frame Vibration Damper. See this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/302358-question-about-attachment-undercarriage.html - do you have that "anvil" on your frame?

Another poss is a sticking caliper piston - the pad would touch the disk and make resonance vibes.

Edit: Just remembered - I had such an issue - turned out to be a spindle bearing. There's a needle bearing supporting the shaft inside the spindle - needs lubing - if it runs dry (e.g. after a few river crossings) it will disintegrate and the shaft starts grinding a brass bushing instead. Easy to check: Remove wheel, hub dust cap and c-clip; push shaft in an inch and check from behind the hub that the needles are still there. You'll see nice grease trace on the shaft with traces/pattern from the needles. If wearing on the brass you will see dirty grease, if there's any left (the oil-seal will not hold up anymore is the bearing is gone or dry). Clean and put grease on the lip of the seal before pushing it back in.
 
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Rot Box asked for help and advice. It's amazing how some very helpfull and kind people jump in to tell him he was dumb and what he should have done. Love those monday morning quarterbacks.

Really sends a rude and mean message to new folks? Let's call it computer induced courage.

Maybe only those willing to assist should comment!
 
Haha its all good I'm really happy I got this far :D I'm no stranger to forums and I know it can really be a can of worms when your first post is : My car is making a funny sound that's hard to describe and I don't know what to do! LOL I really appreciate the reply's you guys have been very helpful. I ran out of time today but I'm going to pull out the tape measure and make sure my front end is adjusted properly then its off to the alignment shop.

marshotel, I definitely think that is in order. These tires are much larger and more aggressive than I prefer (I'm a 255/85 guy and have been long before they were trendy :D) I'm thinking about swapping the 315's out altogether...


uHu, Good call on the needle bearing. I have a recent receipt reading that the bearings were re-packed by a Toyota dealer (for whatever thats worth) and I also checked the needle bearing on the side I tore apart today and everything looked good and the grease was clean. No movement in the wheel bearings or balljoint/rod ends. As for the vibration damper---wow I've never heard of anything like that before but thats not saying much hehe.

Here's a pic: I've spent a lot of time exploring the Western states and I've been kicking around the idea of a 100 for several years now. The miles are up there @ 233k but you'd never guess.... Other than that phantom noise I'm hearing--ugh. Anyway sorry for the novel!

DSC03327.jpg
 
I chased a similar problem with my rig at about that mileage. I believe replacing the upper links on the rear suspension and replacing the driveshafts made the most improvement. Bushings were worn out and the splines on the driveshafts had some play. I have replaced my CV's with OEM about every 100,000 miles.

Tried putting that frame vibration absorber back on and it made no difference.
Rig looks good. Welcome to the forum.
 
Thats the one haha small world. I like buying vehicles from people like Rob great guy :cool:
 
Sorry I'm taking so long to follow up--so busy lately! :doh: I have decided there is nothing critically wrong with the bearings/gears in the drivetrain so I have feel comfortable driving it to work and back. I REALLY want to go to Moab over Thanksgiving but I have this 'its a bad idea' thought in the back of my mind :frown:

The bass noise is the worst at 45mph and it can be head from 10mph to as fas as I want to go.

-No feedback through the steering wheel.
-No feedback through the brakes.
-removed front driveshaft made no difference
-removed rear driveshaft made no difference.
-Switched back and forth from 2nd gear and neutral @ around 45mph and that makes no difference.
-Coasting or accelerating makes very little to no difference.
-Lowered torsion bars (They were cranked up pretty high) to the point my tires almost rubbed while driving and everywhere in between and that made little difference. Set them based off what I read here and the rake and cv angle looks pretty good.

I have a slight twisting "lash" in the rear driveshaft splines. It does not wallow or have slop that I can feel it does not seem to move at all when when I pull and push on it. This would concern me more if the noise went away when I remove the rear driveshaft but it doesn't.

I have an appointment for an alignment today and I'm going to try to get the tires balanced soon. A local shop has a road force balancer they seem to be very proud of so hopefully that does the trick. I'll be sure to report back with what I find hopefully this can help someone in the future.

Thanks again everyone I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help me :cool:
 
Find a local member with stock Michelin tires and swap them out. This will make it much easier to hear/feel where it's coming from. I remember when the PO of this rig replaced the front diff with the ARB. Could it be from the front differential not shimmed or meshed properly? If nothing has fixed it with externals (i.e: driveshafts, CV's, suspension changes), I would start looking at internals.
 
2000UZJ said:
Could it be from the front differential not shimmed or meshed properly?
Click to expand...

Good call I am really dreading that but it is entirely possible. I'm not seeing excessive metal in the front diff so thats good I guess. Also in the past I've had diffs set up poorly and they typically made different sounds depending on throttle position and load sorta like quiet coasting vs. noisy while accelerating or vise versa along those lines.

If it get to that point I guess I'll need to pull the CV's and front driveshaft out and see what that does. Or shell out $1k for a Slee selectable hub kit--I wish! :grinpimp:
 
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