New Battery, still not starting

[flintlock89]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and new to trying to be my own mechanic. Haven't found a good indy shop in SW Mo yet. Not really wanting to go to the dealership.
That being said, our 2010 LX570 (stock) began to flash all sorts of lights on the dash on Friday (Jan 21, 2022), and it took a couple pushes of the button to start. It did happen to drop to 0* F that morning. Lights included check engine, 4LO flashing, Traction Control, the yellow triangle, and "check VSC system." Next morning resulted in engine not turning over at all, but all electronics worked. That being said, on Monday I took the battery to O'Reilly's; they tested, said it was bad, and sold me a new one. Fired right up after install, without any lights on the dash. Victory!... or so I thought. Shut it off, and she set until this morning, when it was 13* and she wouldn't start again. Interior lights working, electronics working, but nothing period happening with the engine. I'm in the process of searching for my multimeter to test volts (as I was told to do). I'll try to jump her when I find it.
Thought maybe in the meantime I'd see if anyone more seasoned than me had anything similar occur and could help point me in a direction to start diag. Is there a fuse somewhere that could affect ignition? Should a brand new, hot battery completely drain in less than 48 hours? Would the alternator have anything to do with this problem, or does it seem electrical? Keep in mind haven't actually driven since replacing battery 2 days ago; it didn't even run for 3 minutes.

Thank you in advance!

 

[radman]

Battery's job is to run the starter to kick on the engine, then the alternator takes over. Even if you have a bad alternator (i'm not saying you do), a few starts on the battery wouldn't be enough to kill it. You likely have a parasitic draw draining the battery while the rig is off. It's common to have all sorts of dash lights with a low battery, so I wouldn't worry about those until you can check the battery voltage with multimeter.

 

[flintlock89]

Battery's job is to run the starter to kick on the engine, then the alternator takes over. Even if you have a bad alternator (i'm not saying you do), a few starts on the battery wouldn't be enough to kill it. You likely have a parasitic draw draining the battery while the rig is off. It's common to have all sorts of dash lights with a low battery, so I wouldn't worry about those until you can check the battery voltage with multimeter.

Thank you for your time!
Battery voltage checked at 12.5V
Little lost as to where to look next

 

[CharlieS]

Clean and tighten battery terminals. Charge battery with a charger. Hopefully they sold you one with decent CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) for cold weather starting.

 

[jivewalker]

If you push the button and the starter does not turn, then I would start looking between the button and the starter. I would start at the starter and work backwards. Have someone press the button while you carefully check for voltage at the starter. If voltage is there, maybe starter is bad. If no voltage is there while pressing start, work backwards until you find the problem. hope that helps. See if you can finding a wiring diagram to help.

 

[TeCKis300]

Battery looks healthy.

Have you ever had to change the starter on your LX? Can you describe what you mean by the engine not turning over? Any click, whir, or rotation of the engine? A known failure is the main HD starter relay solenoid that is piggybacked on the starter. Commonly becomes an issue at 100k+ miles.

Another starter thread

Well i guess i can report after ruling out other possibilities starter is dead and my mechanic confirmed it... 2010 LX 128K. Since we all know this is a common failure on the 200 series between 120-150k I was just thinking why would i go for OEM starter if it only lasted 128k. Would it be a...

forum.ih8mud.com

It could be related coincidence with the other CEL light issues with temperature low and sagging battery voltage, but those are different things to the starter.

 

[flintlock89]

Clean and tighten battery terminals. Charge battery with a charger. Hopefully they sold you one with decent CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) for cold weather starting.

Thanks! I believe they did
Just took your advice, still nothing :/
Dash will light up as normal when you get behind the wheel and press brake, then go black when start is pressed.
I would think if cranking amps were low or would at least try to turn over, perhaps?
I couldn’t find a fuse for ignition or starter. Anyone know if there is one I’m missing?

 

[jivewalker]

Beat on your starter with a stick, then try it again. Try that several times. If it starts, then you need a new starter.

 

[radman]

you said everything went "black"? Sounds like a bad connection or bad battery. Try jumping it?

 

[flintlock89]

Battery looks healthy.

Have you ever had to change the starter on your LX? Can you describe what you mean by the engine not turning over? Any click, whir, or rotation of the engine? A known failure is the main HD starter relay solenoid that is piggybacked on the starter. Commonly becomes an issue at 100k+ miles.

Another starter thread

Well i guess i can report after ruling out other possibilities starter is dead and my mechanic confirmed it... 2010 LX 128K. Since we all know this is a common failure on the 200 series between 120-150k I was just thinking why would i go for OEM starter if it only lasted 128k. Would it be a...

forum.ih8mud.com

It could be related coincidence with the other CEL light issues with temperature low and sagging battery voltage, but those are different things to the starter.

Thanks! Something clicks once.

We've only owned the LX 19 months; we've only had to do basic maintenance (i.e. oil changes, tire rotations)

Dash lights went away on Monday when new battery was installed; I'm guessing that was just a low voltage sign. Possibly two different things simultaneously; love this cold weather... ha!

I'll have to find the starter... that's further than any expertise I've had, but that's why I'm thankful for IH8MUD!! I'm guessing it's somewhere tucked behind the stock skid-plate.... I'll have to jack it up to get underneath. Hopefully it'll warm up some so I can do that. I'll check voltage beginning at starter --> backwards once it's high enough to get under. gotta wait for help, too.

Thank you all for responses!

 

[flintlock89]

you said everything went "black"? Sounds like a bad connection or bad battery. Try jumping it?

that's what my neighbor had thought when I was on the phone with him a short bit ago. i've thoroughly cleaned all connections, then tried again. Nothing from jumping, either.

 

[flintlock89]

Battery looks healthy.

Have you ever had to change the starter on your LX? Can you describe what you mean by the engine not turning over? Any click, whir, or rotation of the engine? A known failure is the main HD starter relay solenoid that is piggybacked on the starter. Commonly becomes an issue at 100k+ miles.

Another starter thread

Well i guess i can report after ruling out other possibilities starter is dead and my mechanic confirmed it... 2010 LX 128K. Since we all know this is a common failure on the 200 series between 120-150k I was just thinking why would i go for OEM starter if it only lasted 128k. Would it be a...

forum.ih8mud.com

It could be related coincidence with the other CEL light issues with temperature low and sagging battery voltage, but those are different things to the starter.

Thanks for the link! super helpful. I'm guessing bad battery killed the starter, or perhaps relay solenoid.

 

[TeCKis300]

@radman brings up a great point regarding the things going black detail you added. Generally shouldn't see that as I don't recall the dash going black when the car fails to crank (due to the relay). This very well could be a continuity issue with wires too. I know you checked the terminals. But it could be terminals or ground straps elsewhere in the vehicle. Maybe next thing to check is to follow the battery grounding wire to the other end where it terminates on the chassis. Check the bolt on that ground.

 

[TexAZ]

it sounds like your starter solenoid is done. My dash went black when the starter died.

you can verify if it is the starter by jumping the solenoid.

get a very long screwdriver (like 2 ft) wrap the shank with electrical tape. leave the end exposed and leave a small gap you can clamp a jumper cable to.
there is a heat shield around the starter that can be removed with 10mm socket.

connect one leg of jumper cables to pos terminal of the battery and clamp the other end to the screwdriver.
have someone push the brake pedal and press the start button. as soon as they push the start button, press the end of the screwdriver on the braided cable between the solenoid and motor of the starter.

if the battery and wiring are good, the starter will turn over and the truck should start. the dash will be lit up, but it will be driveable.

the starter is the same design/location as a Tundra. you can look up Tundra starter replacement to see where it is and how to get to it.

 

[Sandroad]

Thank you for your time!
Battery voltage checked at 12.5V
Little lost as to where to look next

12.5V is plenty to start the engine. I’m with those who suggest checking connections (including grounds) and if good, it’s a bad starter solenoid. Although you likely did have a bad battery too, so replacing that was a great first step. Good job so far!

 

[flintlock89]

Thank you all for all your help! We’ve isolated and determined it’s the starter. Not gonna DIY that, but I have a friend not too far away who used to be a mechanic and drives a tundra with this engine. I’m gonna trailer it to him.
Again, thank you all so very much for your help. This was my first time really using this forum; super thankful y’all are on here!

 

[TeCKis300]

12.5V is plenty to start the engine. I’m with those who suggest checking connections (including grounds) and if good, it’s a bad starter solenoid. Although you likely did have a bad battery too, so replacing that was a great first step. Good job so far!

Yes, I agree that the original issue was the battery. It likely precipitated the secondary issue the OP is dealing with now which was likely already marginal - starter or electrical path, etc.

Motors/starters (aka inductive loads) work by pulling power. Power = volts * amps. Problem with a worn or low battery that isn't putting out adequate volts, the system compensates by pulling through more amps. Doesn't sound bad but consider that electrical paths, relays, etc., are sized for current loads. Say a battery is at 10V (with as starter load, that's very likely). Nominal 12.5V - 10.0V or 20%, means the system will try pulling 20% more current to compensate. Starter pulling 200amps, now pulls 240amps. That will tax, heat up, and wear connections to the point of failure, especially if it were already heading that way.

 

[flintlock89]

Yes, I agree that the original issue was the battery. It likely precipitated the secondary issue the OP is dealing with now which was likely already marginal - starter or electrical path, etc.

Motors/starters (aka inductive loads) work by pulling power. Power = volts * amps. Problem with a worn or low battery that isn't putting out adequate volts, the system compensates by pulling through more amps. Doesn't sound bad but consider that electrical paths, relays, etc., are sized for current loads. Say a battery is at 10V (with as starter load, that's very likely). Nominal 12.5V - 10.0V or 20%, means the system will try pulling 20% more current to compensate. Starter pulling 200amps, now pulls 240amps. That will tax, heat up, and wear connections to the point of failure, especially if it were already heading that way.

Makes sense, and as I think this is still the original, 190K+ miles isn’t too shabby for a starter!

 

[jivewalker]

Thank you all for all your help! We’ve isolated and determined it’s the starter. Not gonna DIY that, but I have a friend not too far away who used to be a mechanic and drives a tundra with this engine. I’m gonna trailer it to him.
Again, thank you all so very much for your help. This was my first time really using this forum; super thankful y’all are on here!

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Fisher23]

I would give is a jump and see if it starts, or have the new battery tested. Maybe you have a new bad battery? You can have 12.7 volts and no amps.