New Badland Apex 12,000 lb. Winch (5 Viewers)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

You realize you're not on a Warn thread, right?
Lol Wow I had no idea.......
I was considering a Badland winch and saw the previous Warn conversations.

As many treads here in mud evolve through conversation was in improper of me to ask a Warn question as others have already done.

See..... When looking at a product or working on a repair for our 80's the threads evolve and that evolution of thought, trouble shooting, success or failure is the mechanics within this forum that makes "it" and all of us successful in our efforts.

Please advise me if my etiquette is out of line. When considering a Badland winch myself and others have also considered the other manufacturers which is why it come up in this thread already.

Personally, for me I buy made in USA as much as I can and stick to the supporting vendors of this forum for parts and upgrades. When I saw warn I realized I could possibly buy USA made, support a vendor thus continuing to invest and support MUD.
 
Last edited:
Lol Wow I had no idea.......
I was considering a Badland winch and saw the previous Warn conversations.

As many treads here in mud evolve through conversation was in improper of me to ask a Warn question as others have already done.

See..... When looking at a product or working on a repair for our 80's the threads evolve and that evolution of thought, trouble shooting, success or failure is the mechanics within this forum that makes "it" and all of us successful in our efforts.

Please advise me if my etiquette is out of line. When considering a Badland winch myself and others have also considered the other manufacturers which is why it come up in this thread already.

Personally, for me I buy made in USA as much as I can and stick to the supporting vendors of this forum for parts and upgrades. When I saw warn I realized I could possibly buy USA made, support a vendor thus continuing to invest and support MUD.
Ok, OK, fair point. Everybody keep their shirt on.
 
I find it very ironic when people pound their chest about buying US made anything and drive a Toyota.
Not only they drive a Toyota, but only Japanese parts can be used as replacement parts since everything else is seen as inferior.



I'll show myself the door.
 
Comparing Japan to china is laughable.
People drive Toyota for QUALITY. Same reason American manufacturers used to be awesome.
Cheap consumers killed quality. Hence mex and us built rigs. (rigs built in na are done so to beat tarriffs. To keep prices "cheap")
 
I find it very ironic when people pound their chest about buying US made anything and drive a Toyota.
Not only they drive a Toyota, but only Japanese parts can be used as replacement parts since everything else is seen as inferior.



I'll show myself the door.
My 1st gen Tacoma was made in USA. And I prefer made in USA, then after that made anywhere but China, then finally China but hopefully not junk.

This whole thread has gotten off topic and uninteresting. I get the comparisons to warn since Harbor Freight made the comparison, but it would be cool to bring it back on topic. That is, about winches, and the harbor freight winches specifically.

To that end, I was wondering if the new apex winch isn't just their old 12k lb which in a new shell. And with some better accessories
 
My 1st gen Tacoma was made in USA. And I prefer made in USA, then after that made anywhere but China, then finally China but hopefully not junk.

This whole thread has gotten off topic and uninteresting. I get the comparisons to warn since Harbor Freight made the comparison, but it would be cool to bring it back on topic. That is, about winches, and the harbor freight winches specifically.

To that end, I was wondering if the new apex winch isn't just their old 12k lb which in a new shell. And with some better accessories
Well said sir, my 98 Tacoma, 05 Sequoia, and 07 Tundra are all made in USA.

I'm wondering the same. How has the MUD experience been with the HF Badland now that a bunch of you have had it for a while now?
 
I do not know this, nor am I sure which mine it comes from.



Gladly.





Yes and yes.



Yes we have a test lab and a full time staff of several people who work in it. We do test everything to failure. We do an extreme amount of testing on every vehicle recovery product we offer.




I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sure our workers would disagree with you. In terms of price, we offer a premium product which is why we're more expensive than Harbor Freight.

I know we won't win everyone over and I'm not here to force our products on anyone. I know we're not the only game in town, but I will always make sure the facts are out there when people ask.

Andy


I am not trying to insult workers OR the intent to work and try. I have been around the block a lot and watched so many companies outsource and layoff people always in search of profit. Perhaps you can see at this time the trouble with shortages because of this quest for American profit. So, as a trickle down effect on consumers, we all have to play the game in order to live our desired lives. Hence the reason for buying a Chinese made winch or anything else. So, if I can buy 4 Chinese for one Warn, it may be a real deal. And perhaps the person buying the Chinese winch may have lost his/her job to outsourcing and that is the frugal thing to do. My bet is I could go into any manufacturing company in America and find down through the chain this pattern.
So, Warn is not alone on this pattern as many companies are. We are at a turning point in this country and this pattern is part of it.

I have read many articles on group testing on winches and Harbor freight usually is rated decent. Warn seems to always be higher rated and I would hope so because of the price. There are also other brands equal to Warn. My feelings have always been the same but now may really show its ugly head. Perhaps if America planned keeping all manufacturing here, 40 million Americans would not be unemployed.
 
I find it very ironic when people pound their chest about buying US made anything and drive a Toyota.
Not only they drive a Toyota, but only Japanese parts can be used as replacement parts since everything else is seen as inferior.



I'll show myself the door.

This has been brought up before. Old news. If you try and stick to truly American made all the way, you would soon to see you could not. Probably the American car you drive has the parts sourced globally. The clothes, shoes, pharmaceuticals are from somewhere else. Even Japan is outsourcing to China for some things. In order to stop this from happening, you will need to time travel to the 1960's and bring a video of 2020 to show them.
 
I agree that Warn is not alone in this. And I don't think there's anything wrong with a company choosing where they have a process completed or where they get their materials - but there are consequences for each choice just like anything else. If you want to claim "made in America", simply follow up on that claim. If you don't, also fine. I'm a fan of American products but at the end of the day I won't turn my nose up at a perfectly functional piece of gear just because it isn't American. Quality is the equalizer of gear and equipment.
 
So, buying the Badlands is actually buying Warn.t The difference is only that Warn is riding on an old namesake hoping the belief is that parts and quality are better in the USA.
You clearly have never had the two side by side and taken them apart and compared them. The chinese manufactured Warn VR winch is significantly higher in quality than the also chinese made smittybilt 9500 and badlands 12000. I had all three for various projects and took the ends off to clock them to fit in an ARB bumper to see which ones would fit better. I sold the smitty and HF winches after comparing them and bought another VR to use in my wrangler ARB bumper as well. The seals, housing, control box etc, even the grease used were all superior in the warn product. no part from the warn is shared with the others and it appears to be a foreign copy of the M6,8,10000 line.

The others can work fine and do the job (the HF after the grease is changed and control box waterproofed HF Badlands 12 k DIY winch hack waterproof upgrade mod ), but there is a difference in quality and the small savings are not worth the compromises and the time and expense it takes to prep them. I have no experience with the new apex winch though, but I need to see more real feedback and not youtube guys looking for sponsorships doing simple pulls in controlled environments. I would want to see long term torture tests.

I find it very ironic when people pound their chest about buying US made anything and drive a Toyota.
Not only they drive a Toyota, but only Japanese parts can be used as replacement parts since everything else is seen as inferior.
I'll show myself the door.
Do you buy cheaper chinese parts for your cruiser? No? very ironic.

IMG_20180630_094120.jpg


31117912_10215340498050844_2023327250258067456_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
You clearly have never had the two side by side and taken them apart and compared them. The chinese manufactured Warn VR winch is significantly higher in quality than the also chinese made smittybilt 9500 and badlands 12000. I had all three for various projects and took the ends off to clock them to fit in an ARB bumper to see which ones would fit better. I sold the smitty and HF winches after comparing them and bought another VR to use in my wrangler ARB bumper as well. The seals, housing, control box etc, even the grease used were all superior in the warn product. no part from the warn is shared with the others and it appears to be a foreign copy of the M6,8,10000 line.

The others can work fine and do the job (the HF after the grease is changed and control box waterproofed HF Badlands 12 k DIY winch hack waterproof upgrade mod ), but there is a difference in quality and the small savings are not worth the compromises and the time and expense it takes to prep them. I have no experience with the new apex winch though, but I need to see more real feedback and not youtube guys looking for sponsorships doing simple pulls in controlled environments. I would want to see long term torture tests.

Do you buy cheaper chinese parts for your cruiser? No? very ironic.

View attachment 2352280

View attachment 2352282
Are US made parts good to go? Australian?


Buy American.
Why not buy a Jeep and MOPAR? Let's end it right here.
 
This doesn't apply directly to the new "apex" winch, more to the buying a budget product mindset. it looks like the Warn VR 10k can be had for a bit under 600 bucks ( unless the vr evo is not the same then maybe 600-700)? If a person is dealing with an ARB bullbar, chances are that whatever winch they bought has to be "clocked." People like to throw around the term "time is money" I feel like the saying only applies if you are taking time off from earning money to repair/mod your vehicle though.
When I bought my Badlands 12k, I got it for $232. I then spent maybe $6-8 on my liquid gasket/sealant stuff and then a couple of hours doing the re-seal, etc.
I'm still under half price. If I really need it and it malfunctions on me, I guess I'll have egg on my face but for half-price I'm willing to gamble a bit.
As to the "Apex" winch though, it sounds like it cannot be "clocked" so that rules it out for me. I have however seen the Apex winch coupon for $499 if you can also get a store clerk to grant you another 20 percent off it becomes a pretty attractive option. I've said before though, at 500-600 it's not nearly as attractive an option to my mind.
 
This doesn't apply directly to the new "apex" winch, more to the buying a budget product mindset. it looks like the Warn VR 10k can be had for a bit under 600 bucks ( unless the vr evo is not the same then maybe 600-700)? If a person is dealing with an ARB bullbar, chances are that whatever winch they bought has to be "clocked." People like to throw around the term "time is money" I feel like the saying only applies if you are taking time off from earning money to repair/mod your vehicle though.
When I bought my Badlands 12k, I got it for $232. I then spent maybe $6-8 on my liquid gasket/sealant stuff and then a couple of hours doing the re-seal, etc.
I'm still under half price. If I really need it and it malfunctions on me, I guess I'll have egg on my face but for half-price I'm willing to gamble a bit.
As to the "Apex" winch though, it sounds like it cannot be "clocked" so that rules it out for me. I have however seen the Apex winch coupon for $499 if you can also get a store clerk to grant you another 20 percent off it becomes a pretty attractive option. I've said before though, at 500-600 it's not nearly as attractive an option to my mind.

I've got to agree with your assessment. For less than $100 over the price of the Apex one can get a Warn VR Evo. It's worth the difference in my mind even if just for the better Warn warranty.
 
I've got to agree with your assessment. For less than $100 over the price of the Apex one can get a Warn VR Evo. It's worth the difference in my mind even if just for the better Warn warranty.

Perhaps I am missing something but the Warn VR Evo winch that is $100 more than the apex badlands winch is this one, the VR-Evo 8. The warn has a 8klb capacity, which is already below the rule of thumb of using double your GVW and it does not use a synthetic line and it is not wireless (for whatever that is worth).

While being $120 less than the warn, the Apex winch has 4k more capacity, is wireless, and has synthetic rope. Why would one spend $100 more for the undersized warn? I could understand if we were talking about a lightweight jeep cherokee, but I don't think us on ih8mud, which are predominantly land cruisers, will have a fully loaded vehicle weighing less than 4,000 lbs unless we are talking fj 40s.

It seems to me that the more A to B comparison would be with the Warn VR Evo 12-S.

I think the better question is is double the price double the value. I don't think any of us are arguing that the Apex winch is the best winch ever, but a good value winch.
 
Perhaps I am missing something but the Warn VR Evo winch that is $100 more than the apex badlands winch is this one, the VR-Evo 8. The warn has a 8klb capacity, which is already below the rule of thumb of using double your GVW and it does not use a synthetic line and it is not wireless (for whatever that is worth).

While being $120 less than the warn, the Apex winch has 4k more capacity, is wireless, and has synthetic rope. Why would one spend $100 more for the undersized warn? I could understand if we were talking about a lightweight jeep cherokee, but I don't think us on ih8mud, which are predominantly land cruisers, will have a fully loaded vehicle weighing less than 4,000 lbs unless we are talking fj 40s.

It seems to me that the more A to B comparison would be with the Warn VR Evo 12-S.

I think the better question is is double the price double the value. I don't think any of us are arguing that the Apex winch is the best winch ever, but a good value winch.

All great points. I'm on the fence personally between the Badland, Warn, smittybuilt. If I go with a Warn 10k I'm paying for that 7 year warranty and endless replacement parts and upgrades available.
 
Perhaps I am missing something but the Warn VR Evo winch that is $100 more than the apex badlands winch is this one, the VR-Evo 8. The warn has a 8klb capacity, which is already below the rule of thumb of using double your GVW and it does not use a synthetic line and it is not wireless (for whatever that is worth).

While being $120 less than the warn, the Apex winch has 4k more capacity, is wireless, and has synthetic rope. Why would one spend $100 more for the undersized warn? I could understand if we were talking about a lightweight jeep cherokee, but I don't think us on ih8mud, which are predominantly land cruisers, will have a fully loaded vehicle weighing less than 4,000 lbs unless we are talking fj 40s.

It seems to me that the more A to B comparison would be with the Warn VR Evo 12-S.

I think the better question is is double the price double the value. I don't think any of us are arguing that the Apex winch is the best winch ever, but a good value winch.

I've seen the Warn VR Evo 10 for sale in several places for $565. Of course to get to that price point you're giving up synthetic line and 2k lbs of capacity compared to the Apex. I think 10k winch is acceptable for most of our rigs. Definitely agree that 8k is too small. You're correct in pointing out it's not quite an apples to apples comparison.

I'm not a Harbor Freight hater my any means. I own quite a bit of stuff from them and at least locally their winches have a good reputation. I want to add a winch to my rig sooner rather than later and the Apex is in my short list. My debate right now is do I give up some features and capacity for a Warn and better warranty and product support or roll with the HF because it offers a lot of the price. I don't necessarily think the Warn VR series is a better winch, just better support and warranty.
 
I upgraded my fairlead to a nylon roller fairlead. Some experienced guys said the Hawse fairleads can cause a lot of friction especially in a high-angle pull. Sometimes enough to break or damage the synthetic rope where a roller fairlead would not. The Nylon rollers are steel reinforced and don't damage the synthetic rope like steel rollers would.

I got this fairlead: Amazon.com: BILLET4X4 4x4 Black Poly Roller Fairlead (for Synthetic Winchrope) Roller Fairlead - Not for Steel Cable (Off-Road Recovery): Automotive

v7LOu7R.jpg


mhFCGT0.jpg


2quIvDY.jpg
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom