Need Opinions on Rear Diff Whine (1 Viewer)

[Underdog]

I have a '94 unlocked. the seal at the rear diff and drive shaft had a slow leak so I ran her by the dealer and they replaced seal. Immediately I notice HUGE gear whine coming from the rear. I checked to make sure they refilled the diff and it was full. The noise is loud. starts up immediately upon acceleration and doesn't really change weather accelerating or coasting. I have always used synthetic and they refilled with dino. Could this be a factor? Or...?

any thoughts?

Thansk, Randy

 

[-Spike-]

Only time I ever heard a whine from a rear diff was before the pinion bearing seized. I'm sure there are other explanations, that was just my experience.

Take it back to the dealer immediately. Actually, call them and ask them if they would like to tow it to their shop.

-Spike

 

[Cruiserdrew]

My guess is that they messed up the pre-load on the pinion bearing. Whine=bad. Get to a differential shop asap. This is not a trivial problem.

 

[Underdog]

Thanks guys. The dealer is close to me. I drove it back and they will look at it Monday. Now I'm stuck without my truck for the rest of the weekend. Oh well, maybe I'll just sit around and drink some beer.

Thanks for the input,

Randy

 

[Underdog]

Could someone explain what they most likely did wrong on the repair so when I go pick it up tomorrow and they try to charge me for the fix I can talk intelligently with them. I assume there is a bearing on the end of the driveshaft at the diff and obviously a seal. What did they do to replace the seal and what is preload?

Thanks again,

Randy

 

[Tools R Us]

IMHO the only "correct" way to do it, on a crush sleeve setup is to drop the diff and remove the carrier. If they didn't drop the diff, there is a couple of ways that they could have done it;

Just pull the flange, replace the seal and reassemble. This method involves the most guesswork, what would the proper torque be, what would the resulting pinion bearing preload be and how is the used, already crushed sleeve going to preform?

Follow the FSM method of removing the outer bearing and replacing the crush sleeve. My FSM only says "adjust pinion "preload" with no spec for a fully assembled axle.

Using ether method the only way I see to get it anywhere close, would be to measure the rolling drag before disassembly and try to get it close when reassembled. But your trying to get a setting on the first two bearings (pinion) and measuring the drag of all of the bearings, gears, seals, brakes, etc. IMHO too many variables to get an accurate setup, also depending on mileage the preload was probably already way loose due to normal wear.

With the whine that your hearing my guess is that they set the preload way loose, if so they will probably just tighten the pinion nut until it's quiet. Post the parts list from the invoice, that will give a clue of what they may have done.

 

[Underdog]

Parts list is simply 90311-38047 Seal and Type T Oil. The service portion says Replace rear diff pinion seal. It was $200 and they called and said it was ready after about 3-4 hours.

Thanks,

Randy

 

[Tools R Us]

Parts list is simply 90311-38047 Seal and Type T Oil. The service portion says Replace rear diff pinion seal. It was $200 and they called and said it was ready after about 3-4 hours.

Thanks,

Randy

From that they just did the, pull the flange and replace the seal deal. I don't see how you could get an accurate setup doing that, big gamble. You would think that the dealer would at least follow the FSM procedure?

 

[-Spike-]

I would make them do it right, even if they ask you to pay the full cost of the correct procedure. Not one penny more than that, and the money you already gave them should go towards the full bill. That's not a good place to 'guess' where the preload is. Show them the FSM pages if they argue, if you have them or can get them.

-Spike

 

[jmvar]

If you don't have an FSM, shoot me a PM and I will scan that page for you when I get home from work.

 

[Underdog]

I want to thank everyone who spent their time posting to help me. I help out when I can but its not too often.

The dealer called and said they couldn't fix it. Their answer is a new diff. I had it flatbedded to my LC mechanic (who I should have brought it to in the first place). He will take care of me. Moral of the story (IMO): the dealers don't see our trucks enough so the new techs don't know what to do when it comes to the axles. What would happen if I pulled in and needed the front axle service!! Scary thought.

Anyways, it was fun having my truck flat bedded AWAY from the dealer! I drove it in with a little leak and have to flat bed it to a competent mechanic. The service manager didn't really seem to care, I think he was just happy to get rid of a problem.

Thanks again for the replies,

Randy

 

[-Spike-]

Curious, did they refund your money?

-Spike

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Curious, did they refund your money?

-Spike

Seriously! THey should buy you a new diff. They jacked this one up by screwing up the pre-load.

 

[-Spike-]

I doubt anything was damaged, maybe the pinion bearing. He just needs a shop that can do the work correctly. Dealerships want to replace assemblies, not parts. I doubt that the techs are even expected to know how to set pre-load.

Taking my car anywhere scares me. I might do it wrong, but not for lack of effort. Not that the techs don't want to put forth the effort, I believe it's the dealership's shops (and some independant shops) operating procedure to do the least amount of work possible so they can blame the high repair bills on parts cost.

-Spike

 

[cary]

When I had the birfields repacked and new brakes put on, it came down to having the dealer do it (lack of trust that they would shortcut it), or my mechanic who works primarily on BMW's, but does the 80 for me as favor. I have a long relationship with my mechanic, off roaded with him, gone to watch him race, etc., and trust him. I told my wife the two choices and she didn't even hesitate, she said there is no way someone she doesn't know is doing the repair.

 

[Underdog]

Updated

The final outcome on this mess:

My mechanic said the tech at the dealer must have used an impact wrench at 600lbs to put the nut back on after replacing the seal. The bearing was totally destroyed in the short distance I drove. He also said that it got so hot the oil was black and smelled cooked. He tried to set it back up with a new crush sleeve and bearing but in the end he said "new third member." He found what he said was the last one available in the US and the truck is back to new. Final cost to me was $2,400.

I went back to the dealer a month ago and presented my case. As of today they have agreed to pay me $1,128 (I get the check next week), which is what they say would have been their cost to fix. I accepted the money b/c the reality is it is not worth the fight for the difference.

Its a little disappointing b/c they admit they screwed it up. Their arguement is that after my mechanic diagnosed the problem, I should have brought it back. This is unreasonable for 2 reasons - do I want someone incompetant doing the work and I'm supposed to tell my mechanic to pack it up and a flat bed is coming to get my truck and take it to the dealer and I don't even know how they will recieve it. I didn't know if they would fix it for free or not! They had already told me I needed a new 3rd member and gave me an estimate of the repair cost. They did apologize for not telling me it was their fault.

My opinion: The dealer should have sucked it up and made me happy. Instead, I will tell everyone I know to steer clear of them. I don't treat my customers like this but others do. Dealers have new techs learning on your vehicle so find the guys who worked there for 20-25 years and then went out on their own - they have the required experience.

Thanks for all the help and thanks for listening!

Randy
'94 225K miles and looks and runs like new!

 

[wildsmith]

That dealer must have a pretty awesome air supply! About six months ago I changed the seal on my leaky rear diff and turned the nut in a bit further to take up the play in the pinion and even with a bar it took a lot of force to turn it.

Bad news the dealer made such a botch job of what should have been a simple repair with a bit of care.

Jon.

 

['74 UA FJ]

I found this thread and didn't want to start a new one.

I have a new to me '94 fzj80. There is a slight but obvious whine in the rearend at speed (55 and up mph). The whine is only audible under load. When I let off to coast, there is no whine. I checked the gear oil in everything and found that the newest oil is in the rearend. I'm thinking that what must have happened is that a seal was leaking and the gear oil was allowed to get low. Then they replaced the seal and refilled the diff. I have no other theory as to why a bearing would be going bad on a street driven truck with only 80,000 miles.

Does anyone have any insight into which bearing might be the culprit? What do you guys think?

I found this thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=4025&highlight=rear+whine
Seems like it may be the pinion bearing.

 

[gray]

I personally do not have a good answer other than to suggest that first you change the gear oil (to be sure it is the proper type and viscosity) and see if that makes a difference. You could try a higher viscosity gear oil for the same reason. That is assuming it is the something in the diff and not tires, axle bearings, etc.

But if you run into the same problem that Underdog did, and the dealer is not being helpful, you should call 1-800-331-4331 (Toyota) follow the prompts and register your complaint. The stealership's service manager must respond back to Toyota HQ on how they solved the problem for the customer. I believe they must report back within 24 hours for their initial reply to the complaint. This impacts whether or not they get the Presidents Award, or at least it used to. It also documents how the customer tried to get the problem fixed. I will now state the obvious; stealerships, service managers, etc, will "manipulate" the facts to Toyota HQ when they tell their side of the story, so the more evidence you have the better off you are. Underdog could have gone to small claims court also to handle this (depends on the amount) and represented himself in front of the judge; but that is time spent,etc and may not be worth it to most of us. I have had rear pinion seals replaced on my LC's (by dealers) without any problems and without pulling the diff; ~$100+, the seal and one hour's labor.

Hope you have better luck than Underdog did.

 

['74 UA FJ]

Hope you have better luck than Underdog did.

I'm sure I will, since I fix my own junk.