Need advice Transmission Fluid: to change or not to change? (1 Viewer)

[mallard75]

Hey guys I am coming here hat in hand and asking for some advice here. 2007 with 197,000 miles. Went to the dealership today to get some routine maintenance done and the topic of transmission fluid came up. I am not sure how I missed this one but looking at the vehicle service records it does not look like it has ever been done. Now I am in a pickle.

The question is: change it or let it ride. What would you do? The tech is saying he would not touch it if it were his.

If I let it ride, I am wondering what kind of time bomb I am sitting on. Are there any of you out there as dumb as me and let original fluid go? And if so, how long did the transmission last?

I am leaving in two weeks for a colorado fly fishing trip and plan to do a fair amount of off road driving around lake city, silverton and Pagosa. I'm now starting to really worry I have a ticking time bomb. As of now, the thing shifts smooth and there are no issues presenting. If it does start to go, I am wondering if I will start seeing some signs or will it just go all at once?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[mallard75]

I should add that there is no dipstick on this model so it’s hard to check the condition.

 

[DirtDawg]

I personally would change it. EVERY transmission I have owned and changed fluid on, the fluid change always improves the characteristics of the transmission.

If you let it ride however, its not going to be a ticking time bomb. These toyota transmissions are fantastic and reliable. Many have run them to 300k on the original fluid with no issues. However, I believe all lubricating fluid has a life, so I always change it.

Transmission issues are usually caused by excessive towing, flooring it from every stop, or other abusive tendencies. Fluid condition does not really affect reliability, unless the incorrect fluid or level is in there.

 

[trdcorolla]

I would probably feel better about draining the pan and filling it properly. Maybe do this 2-3 times over the next few oil changes. I'm always scared of full flushes on higher mileage transmissions. The key is to get the fluid level correct, putting in what you took out is not the correct way. 98-03 100's have dip sticks, check the temp at the right temp on a level surface after shifting through all the gears. For 04-07 (i'm assuming it's the same transmission like my 04 4Runner), You need to a use a paper clip, then do a specific shift knob sequence to get into the oil temp mode, then when a certain light on the dash lights up or flashes, you remove the transmission check bolt (not the drain bolt). If fluid trickles out, your level is good, if it pours out like when you pull off your oil pan bolt, it's overfilled, let it drain until it trickes out. If no fluid comes out, it's low. Turn off the car then pump in some fluid (don't put the tube to fill too far into the transmission, maybe do a 1/4 quart at at time, put back the check bolt and start the paper clip/transmission shift sequence again. When the light comes back on, pull the check bolt and adjust as necessary. I drained and refilled my dipstick 100 3-4 times since I got it 2 years ago.

 

[DirtDawg]

I always recommend a fluid exchange over a flush or the drain and fill method. Exchanges the fluid under the power of the transmission, ensures you get 99% of the old fluid out, and is generally pretty easy. The old fluid is pumped out of the cooler line at the front of the truck and new fluid is filled in the trans fill hole. Many write ups on this method, as all the newer sealed Toyota transmissions are generally the same.

 

[mallard75]

Thank you guys. I’m thinking I might wait til after my trip just in case bus it sounds like the consensus is change it but not flush it and not worry about the miles. The shop Foreman mad it sound like I would be rolling the dice changing it and there would be a 50/50 chance the transmission would crater if I did it and that the ecosystem of the transmission is very delicate at this point with the miles on the fluid.

 

[ga12r1]

Fluid exchange via the cooler line is so easy. I’m not sure how new fluid could be a bad thing unless you had a shop “flush” the system under pressure. All fluids break down over time.
I just did mine a few weeks ago at 210k miles. I don’t know if it had been done before or not but judging by the color I’m glad I did. Transmission shifts smooth as ever afterwards.

 

[bentonrover]

I do the drain and fill method personally. My check bolt on the pan is frozen with rust. Barely got the drain plug off without stripping the threads. So I just fill back up with whatever came out. No issues

 

[NoTempoLimit]

The dealer may tell you some B.S. about "lifetime fluid" (which conveniently doesn't come with a lifetime guarantee). Toyota claims the fluid does not have to be changed if you don't tow anything.

According to transmission manufactures, lifetime fluid means 200 - 250k km, or 124 - 155k miles.

If you have an '07 with nearly 200k and the fluid has never been changed, get it done ASAP. Toyota WS fluid, filter and pan gasket. Do a drain and fill.

I did this on my '06 with 123k miles (had original fluid and never towed). From experience I brought extra fluid (5 quarts) and all of it was used. I've had ZERO issues after the drain-and-fill. I got the impression that the trasmission felt smoother after, but I can say its definitely not worse in any way.

The guy that did the job for me is a transmission expert with 40+ years of experince. I asked him about how good this transmission (5-speed) is, he said: "Its a good transmission, but they do sometimes have valve body problems" (meaning the trans is good but no trans is perfect an maintenance-free.

I also asked how often I should change the fluid in the future and he said "every 30k miles" which was more often than I expected.

Heat and worn out contaminated fluid is what kills automatic transmissions. And they are insanely complicated and costly to fix.

A fluid change is the cheapest insurance you will ever buy.

 

[BullElk]

I check fluid regularly on all mine but I never change it. No tranny problems.

 

[liveoak]

I also recommend drain and fill. If it's the first time, I would do it three times driving around between changes of course. I like to use valvoline maxlife ATF. Wal-Mart usually has the gallon jugs for around $18. I think if you do a little research you'll see maxlife is probably the best factory replacement fluid for the overpriced Toyota WS.

 

[NoTempoLimit]

I think if you do a little research you'll see maxlife is probably the best factory replacement fluid for the overpriced Toyota WS.

Good to know. I used the Idemitsu fluid on the reccomendation of my car parts guys (BMA) who have never steered me wrong. Apparently Idemitsu makes the WS fluid for Toyota. Price was reasonable.

 

[apdxyk]

There is capex and opex in every endeavor, business or personal hobby. Folks already saved on capex and try to pinch pennies on opex, - a Third World approach. My Lexus dealer does partial fluid (drain-refill) for about $120 and the full swap for around $250. I do the full one every 120k miles and the partial in-between (60k after the full one). My son is an engineer and wanted "to see how it goes", his AT broke at 478k miles without fluid changes, but that is sample population size of one only - not valid for a reference, of course. WS fluid has different thermal expansion characteristics and thermo-electric properties from maxlifes [that's why it takes quite a few hours to do it with the dealer machine, it takes input from a few sensors and fluid temps must be in a certain range, they use big shop fans sometimes to bring it down, but not below the temp floor].
There are a few WS certified fluids out there, but was not worth it in my experience. It's a different story for the older 4-speed AT though, I use simpler things in it.

 

[Moderator]

I recently purchased an 04 with 150K and the fluid had also never been changed. I did a drain and fill (about 3-3.5 liters at a time) using Toyota ATF twice now within about a month and will probably now just switch to doing it when I change my oil. The tech at the dealership may have been told never to tell a customer to change the fluid on a vehicle that claims to have a lifetime fluid.

 

[BullElk]

Change tranny fluid every time you change your engine oil? Holy Toledo. I wonder how many more miles I could get out of my tranny's if I changed the fluid that often.

 

[95Fantasma80]

if transmission is already having issues a change may make things worse... if its feels good then changing oil won't affect anything.

 

[BullElk]

“....if its feels good then changing oil won't affect anything”. And the fact that my fluids are always pink, never dark, is exactly why I never change it. If correct color and “won’t affect anything” anyway.....why the expense?

 

[DirtDawg]

if transmission is already having issues a change may make things worse... if its feels good then changing oil won't affect anything.

I disagree. New fluid is always a good thing. And as long as you don’t get it FLUSHED with a machine, I’ve never heard of anyone making their teams worse.

 

[abuck99]

High HEAT cycles transform the chemical properties of the trans fluid: affecting detergency for keeping things clean, lubricity for keeping things slippery, and film thickness thermal protection. If its a mall crawler it probably won't ever get hot enough to break down the fluid and-it may never need changing. But if you tow, have a heavy built vehicle ( mine is 6600lbs), you wheel it, climb mountain passes you'll want to fluid exchange 60k intervals per OM maintenance schedule. I drain & fill @ 20-30k intervals to keep cycling in some fresh fluid.

 

[NoTempoLimit]

It is my understanding that on modern automatic transmissions with electronic controls, flushing out all the old fluid at once is what creates the myth that changing the fluid is bad. The reason is the electronics that control the hydraulics have adapted to the reduced performance of the old fluid. A sudden change to all new fluid causes the electronics to have to adapt too much too quickly and results in errors.

Drain and fill, which usually replaces about half the fluid, does not seem to cause problems. Even on finicky BMW automatics (which are built by GM France or ZF). Also the filter needs changing and the gasket frequently needs replacing as well. This is why I pay a shop to do it so they can get the vehicle up on a lift and drop the entire transmission pan. As a plus you get any crap that is laying in the pan out as well.

I've done this twice (2000 BMW E46 with ZF auto @ 83k mi and 2006 LC 100 @ 123k mi). In both cases I brought extra fluid beyond what the manual said was needed for drain and fill. In both cases all the extra fluid was needed.

I assume the "missing" fluid either leaked out or was lost to evaporation.