My turboed 3FE, couple ?'s for anyone who has done it, injectors, Megasquirt?

[YooperCruiser]

Ok it's a 62 not an 80 series, but no one in the 60's section is running a turbo. I built this 3 years ago and it's been phenomenal, it's night and day better over stock. I'm running a Split Second O2 sensor enricher for fueling and that's where I'm having trouble. The Enricher is doing it's job running 11.8 - 12.5:1 under boost but the weird thing is with more pedal it gets leaner all the way up to 16:1 or even higher under heavy load and accelerating. Split Second says it's an adaption issue with the ecu and possibly also need bigger injectors. I know if I disconnect the battery and let the ecu reset it'll be better for awhile, but there's still that condition where it progressively gets leaner the more pedal I give it.

I'm running 6 lbs of boost, currently running 60 psi of fuel pressure, have an additional inline fuel pump, and running an intercooler.

So my questions are do I need bigger injectors?

Is anyone running a stand a lone system like Megasquirt?

Thanks!

Here's a short video. I'm accelerating up to 65 on the highway, you can see it's lean until I'm up to speed and let off, then there's a hill requiring more fuel and it get's lean again.

 

[fjbj40]

Have you thought about a rising rate of gain fpr or an AIC?

I ran that on my 240z which had a 280zxt engine in it.

 

[YooperCruiser]

Have you thought about a rising rate of gain fpr or an AIC?

I ran that on my 240z which had a 280zxt engine in it.

I have a rising rate fpr with boost port and it made no difference. I've gone back to the stock fpr because the rising rate didn't hold pressure and would require more cranking to get fuel pressure and start.

I have not tried an AIC although I've thought about using the cold start injector for that, or welding a bung in the tubing before the throttle body. Since it's going lean in closed loop I've wondered how the ecu will respond, will it pull fuel? will it let me set the afr where I want it? This is a desmogged California model if that matters

 

[cruisermatt]

you're either out of injector or the 3FE ECU just can't put the necessary duty cycle for the demand. Or both. Or your wideband/sensor is reading high - I would try a second one to confirm. Highly recommend AEM over Innovate. 15-16:1 AFR is Boom territory, no wonder it probably feels like it's running great. If that AFR is true it probably hasn't blown up yet because the ignition timing curve is still stock/ish.

Microsquirt and coil packs so you could control ignition timing would be nice, then you could really do some damage.

 

[MTMarcoux]

Not sure if this is an option for this setup but my old Supercharged T100 had a 7th injector that went directly into the intake. It is a known problem with the 5vzfe and supercharger that you they run lean after I want to say 3000RPM and the 7th injector kicked in at that RPM and helped compensate and keep the fuel ratio in spec.

 

[fjbj40]

I have a rising rate fpr with boost port and it made no difference. I've gone back to the stock fpr because the rising rate didn't hold pressure and would require more cranking to get fuel pressure and start.

I have not tried an AIC although I've thought about using the cold start injector for that, or welding a bung in the tubing before the throttle body. Since it's going lean in closed loop I've wondered how the ecu will respond, will it pull fuel? will it let me set the afr where I want it? This is a desmogged California model if that matters

I ran the stock fpr and the RRGFPR was after that.

 

[PIP]

I've used Megasquirt on a number of projects. All of them still running troublefree a decade+ later as far as I know.

Megasquirt seems like iffy hobby stuff at first, but the hardware is great, well proven and very well supported. Tuner Studio is great software as well.

 

[cruisermatt]

a $300 Microsquirt would go a very long way for you. Not only would you be able to control timing, but also boost. And Datalogging which is HUGE

 

[fjbj40]

a $300 Microsquirt would go a very long way for you. Not only would you be able to control timing, but also boost. And Datalogging which is HUGE

Have you played with the Microsquirt in an application like this?

I’ve just started investigating the MS units myself.

 

[cruisermatt]

Have you played with the Microsquirt in an application like this?

I’ve just started investigating the MS units myself.

Not on a Land Cruiser (yet), but several turbo LS projects.
They are a very economical way to go fast. Or even just use for datalogging and adding accurate sensors without adding bunch of huge gauges.

 

[alia176]

Subscribed to this awesome turbo project and to learn some chit.

 

[YooperCruiser]

a $300 Microsquirt would go a very long way for you. Not only would you be able to control timing, but also boost. And Datalogging which is HUGE

I talked to diyautotune and they recommended the MS3Pro Mini MS3Pro Mini Standalone Engine Management System w/ Harness - https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3pro-mini-standalone-engine-management-system-w-harness/

We'll see, I'm so busy all summer and the cruiser sits for 6 months during winter, which would be the best time for me to do it. I found a used AIC and might throw a 7th injector in for now. It does run great though, no pinging or signs of detonation, plugs look perfect, but it's dangerous territory for sure. For the most part I can drive it and keep it out of that lean range but that's no fun, and if I reset the ecu it's pretty good for a couple days.

 

[alia176]

I talked to diyautotune and they recommended the MS3Pro Mini MS3Pro Mini Standalone Engine Management System w/ Harness - https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3pro-mini-standalone-engine-management-system-w-harness/

We'll see, I'm so busy all summer and the cruiser sits for 6 months during winter, which would be the best time for me to do it. I found a used AIC and might throw a 7th injector in for now. It does run great though, no pinging or signs of detonation, plugs look perfect, but it's dangerous territory for sure. For the most part I can drive it and keep it out of that lean range but that's no fun, and if I reset the ecu it's pretty good for a couple days.

i read up on your link. So, you can tune it yourself but can you take it to a dyno so that they can tune it too? Or maybe dyno tuners don't like to touch MS stuff?

 

[PIP]

i read up on your link. So, you can tune it yourself but can you take it to a dyno so that they can tune it too? Or maybe dyno tuners don't like to touch MS stuff?

Dyno tuners have no problem with MS stuff. It isn't looked down upon at all by anyone who's used it.

 

[bj70bc]

yes... i would be afraid anything past 13.5-14 at wot, 12-12.5 being ideal

 

[cruisermatt]

yes... i would be afraid anything past 13.5-14 at wot, 12-12.5 being ideal

12-12.5 is lean.

 

[bj70bc]

a bit , i usually target 11.5, but at least its still not boom time.....like16

 

[kw90surf]

Just a note, never played with any turbo stuff (other than a Volvo 760 turbo with some stuff done to it, when I was in high school).

When I got my current FJ80, I chased some EFI gremlins for a bit. Came to find out that it had a number of things wrong (vacuum leaks, way retarded timing, a bricked O2 sensor circuit in the ECU).

Once I had the other things dialed out, I ran it with the O2 sensors unplugged for a bit. Honestly, it ran pretty well, just a bit of an MPG penalty (and I'm not talking much, I still averaged 11-14 mpg.

Could try unplugging the O2 sensors and running the RRFPR, for a bit. Crude, but probably safer than running with them in, as from my readings the ECU is probably trying to claw back additional fuel in closed loop and keep near stoich when boost comes on.

Following, as I'm also somewhat interested in a 3FE turbo setup, if you do end up going Megasquirt or other standalone ECU, please document!

 

[YooperCruiser]

Fuel injector calculaters show I'm 39% low on injector volume. Stock is 213 cc, 20.9 lbs/hr and for my guestimate of 225 hp I should be at 295 cc, 28 lbs/hr. Osidetiger has Toyota injectors at 300, 360, 440 cc and up. I'm probably going to get the 300cc as I don't plan to push this engine beyond 6 lbs of boost, unless there's a good argument to go up to 360 cc.

 

[kw90surf]

Fuel injector calculaters show I'm 39% low on injector volume. Stock is 213 cc, 20.9 lbs/hr and for my guestimate of 225 hp I should be at 295 cc, 28 lbs/hr. Osidetiger has Toyota injectors at 300, 360, 440 cc and up. I'm probably going to get the 300cc as I don't plan to push this engine beyond 6 lbs of boost, unless there's a good argument to go up to 360 cc.

Are you going to fool around with the AFM tension and/or O2 sensor spoofing for part-throttle closed loop operation with the larger injectors? As I understand the ECU looks at coolant temp, AFM position and RPM to calculate base injection timing, then applies an O2 correction to try and maintain target AFR. With larger injectors, open loop (start-up, cold operation) is going to be super rich with the ECU using its base maps w/larger injectors. Also not sure big the O2 correction window is but I can't imagine it's large.

The forums are kinda brutal and the posts are all pretty old, but check out the old MKII and MKIII Supra forums. Lots of guys doing forced induction on what is essentially the identical injection system (licensed copy of Bosch Motronic/Jetronic I believe). Might also find some info on older BMW forums.

Keep us all posted how you make out.