Multiport Fuel Injection for 2F

[MO-Troopy]

I am building a multiport fuel injection system for a 2F powered FJ60. There are some parts that I will need to cnc as well as putting together the appropriate control system. I am wondering if anybody out there thinks there is a market for this type of system. I'd like to make 10 of them to keep prices down.
This is essentially a bolt on system that I am putting together. I have put on the throttle body system on three land cruisers (2 FJ60s and an FJ40) and it was like so many variables on each of the cruisers. My thought is that a multiport would be easier overall.
Give me some feedback
Thanks

 

[lovetoski]

Is there a market - depends. Is there a need - for sure. The youngest 60's are 21 years old, carbs are worn, emississions stuff is getting funky. There are a number of TBI options out there - anything from super cheap build your own, to the full kit from MAF.

I'd cost up a kit in single units and qtyies of 10, post up the price and what's in the kit, and see what the response is.

I will suscribe to this thread, as your idea is interesting. I want to see where it goes.

 

[MO-Troopy]

Multiport Project

The TBI issue is just that. An issue of a lot of variables. I had three Cruisers, all with different carbs on them. All sucked, generally. None had oem carb on them. The smog stuff under the hood was like nothing I've ever seen - so many vacuum hoses so little time. I want to offer one system with minimal variance. Like I stated, bolt it on. I will keep all posted. I want to do this in approx 1 months time.
Thanks
Jeff

 

[Coyote808]

I would be interested to see what happens because I think a Fuel Injection System would not only improve performance, but resale value of either the engine or whole truck when one finally does convert to diesel.

 

[fowldarr]

Interested...

 

[zuluzeugma]

What computer are you using?

Several guys have already done this using MegaSquirt

 

[MO-Troopy]

Several guys have done this?

Oh really, I couldn't find a kit anywhere. I want a kit that is set up and ready to go. With good instructions (on a DVD or CD video instructions). And a manual that is readable. I am from Missouri so you have to show me.
Jeff

 

[OlympiaFJ60]

No kit, just home built. Some have built their own manifold, others have used the 3FE head and manifold. What ECM do you plan on using? Any pictures of what the manifold will look like? And the most important part, what will the cost be? There are a couple of places that have "considered" a port injection setup for a while but none have ever materialized. Chet Wagner was working on one that would reportedly be available through Downey.

I have TBI on my 60 and am thinking about adding the 3FE head and using the TBI ECM and wiring to drive it.

There will be alot of people interested but put off by a high price system, no matter how well put together and complete a system.

I will be staying tuned to see what you come up with.

 

[fliphkd778]

Have you seem Jim van deven's multiport?
FJ40SS - Toyota Trails

 

[MO-Troopy]

Multiport for the Masses Project

I bought the Manafre and the Downey TBI - they still require hours and hours of improvising and then the prom programming - whew.
Anyway yes I have seen the Turbo 2F with Multi-port Fuel Injection
by Jim Van de Ven note that he concludes his remarks with,

"After the mechanical and wiring systems were installed, the most time consuming part of the project was programming the computer EPROM."

So I am thinking a kit for $3500 ready to go -
no turbo that would be a different kit.

 

[Tinker]

84Cruiser has the MegaSquirt all dialed in (he's a perfeshional). Try PMing him.

 

[ToyotaDon]

I've been thinking about something like this using the control system from a 1996-newer 4.3L GM. It's a central multi-port injection system, so a harness would have to be built for standard-style injectors, then either splice it to the existing harness or install a universal connector. I think the hardest part would be setting up the Crankshaft Position Sensor. The "distributor" is essentially the Camshaft Position Sensor.

For the intake manifold, I think it could be done without CNC. You would need rectangular blocks that bolt to the head, these would be drilled to accept the injectors at the proper angle. Your runners would be welded to the blocks, go straight out, then curve upward. For the plenum you could use a piece of square tubing turned diagonally (like a diamond in cross-section). Anything that needs to be bolted to the plenum would have a solid block cut & drilled to the right dimension. I have this all in my head right now, one day I need to try building it in SketchUp.

._12.<>
l_l==//

^General shape shown^

For the fuel rail it would be fairly easy to machine a piece (or pieces) similar to this:

AEM also has adjustable pressure regulators that could come in handy.

 

[zuluzeugma]

One of the easiest rails to modify would be the 7mge or 7mgte (older Supra (NA and TA)). Or make your own.

 

[ntsqd]

Runner cross sectional area and length variations will have a large impact on how well the engine performs and where it's powerband is. See the Vizard et. al. books.
I'd think it easier to use the 3FE intake as then the runners and plenum sizes will be pretty close.

There is probably an ideal angle for the injectors, but folks have been known to buy the MSD injector pockets and epoxy them into the runner pointing straight across the runner. Wouldn't be what I'd want, but it does work.
Can also buy the fittings for the top of the injectors to make up the fuel rail, and purchasable reamers for both ends reportedly exist.

 

[ToyotaDon]

AFAIK, the 3FE intake only works if you use the 3FE head as well. I think the idea of a one-off intake built especially for the 2F is awesome. BTW, aluminum would be my choice of material.

The reason I was thinking of the GM setup would be for possible CARB approval. I know Man-A-Fre tried to get their TBI setup approved, but it seems like if you could eliminate the variables and put together a bulletproof "kit", it would stand a better chance.

The '99-~'02 CA S/T & C/K models had both AIR (electric pump) and EGR (electronic as well) and would match the equipment on the FJ60 & late-model FJ40. For earlier FJ40 models or for smog exempt areas the system from '03-up on all except Express van have no AIR or EGR, and there was the option for manual transmission in some of those.

That's a bunch of info, hope it helps.

 

[ntsqd]

No doubt, but if you're going to go to the trouble of making port plates for the intake, cut off the "plates" on the 3FE intake and weld it to your fab'd plates.

CARB approval is terribly expensive from what I've read on the topic.

 

[ToyotaDon]

That would be an idea, or just fab up spacers that would hold the injectors and adapt the 2 sides to each other. I've never held a 2F intake up to a 3FE intake but someone who has could tell us how well the ports line up.

Edit: Or do the injectors mount in the intake on the 3FE?

 

[RockDoc]

That would be an idea, or just fab up spacers that would hold the injectors and adapt the 2 sides to each other. I've never held a 2F intake up to a 3FE intake but someone who has could tell us how well the ports line up.

Edit: Or do the injectors mount in the intake on the 3FE?

This might help some: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/143089-3fe-vs-2-3f-carb-cyl-head.html

Injectors mount in the intake plenum but require some accommodation on the head side too.

 

[ToyotaDon]

That's a great link. Jim C. delivers again.

More conjecture on making this work: The piece to modify or fabricate then, would be the lower/inner manifold. It can be seen in a nebulous way here.



One end would fit the 2F head while the other would accept the 3FE upper intake plenum. This is fun!

 

[ntsqd]

Given that the exhaust manifold is in the way, would it be possible to make plates that bolt on with the exhaust, and then allow a modified 3FE intake to bolt to it? I'm thinking that the FE intake would need tabs welded to it for this to work.
If that can happen, then the notch in the FE head to clear the injector spray could instead be in the plates.