Mud eating clear coat - next steps? (1 Viewer)

[rockstate45]

Hey All,

I’ve got a black LX450 that’s a ‘97. To keep the story short, I bought the thing bone stock 5 years ago with the intention to wheel it but keep it clean.

Fast forward to today, it’s still clean but it’s got it’s fair share of scratches from branches, trees, etc. Recently, I’ve noticed that mud likes to eat through my clearcoat.

I hate mud as much as most of you - and tend to wash it off as quickly as I can. Unfortunately, even in 48 hours, it’s etched the clear. Admittedly, it’s waxed fairly regularly but apparently it’s either not working or it’s been too long since the last coat.

I’ve read that a “bug and tar remover” will do the trick. I tried it about 2 weeks ago with no luck.

1. Am I seeing things wrong and it’s just a film on the paint?
2. What do you guys do to protect the paint from that?

I can snag a pic later on if it’ll help. Thanks for the input.

In case anybody was wondering, that took about 3 hours of cleaning. Pulling the wheels was a must to get the undercarriage clean after this weekend.

 

[LouisianaRubicon]

Nice LX. I'll have a post this week in the thread "what did you do to your 80 series this weekend" that I'll detail out what you can do. A couple of things for now:

-The black paint on all LX450s is single stage. There is no clear coat.
-The gray is a base coat clear coat (it has clear coat)

Take pictures of the "eating" you're talking about and post them. I use mine on the trails as well and don't mind scratching it but like it to look nice. What you most likely need is to "correct" your paint/ level it out with a compound/ polish. Your results by hand will be minimal and take forever. You'll want a machine for this. Dual Action "DA" polisher is what you're looking for. I attach some pictures below to show you what I'm talking about.

 

[LouisianaRubicon]

This shows the condition of our paint before

During the first step of correction:

After the first step (you can see how bad the rear passenger door is compared to the front:

Let me know if you have questions. Hope this helps you!

 

[rockstate45]

This shows the condition of our paint before
View attachment 1819625

During the first step of correction:
View attachment 1819627


After the first step (you can see how bad the rear passenger door is compared to the front:
View attachment 1819632

Let me know if you have questions. Hope this helps you!

Man, that’s an incredible difference! A buddy dod that to his recently and the results were dramatic as well.

I’ve been holding off on doing paint correction because I am under the assumption you only get “so many” before you don’t get another one. I wonder, is periodic paint correction better than doing it “once”? (I assume the answer is “no” because you’re taking a small amount of paint each time.

Pardon the crappy pics - tough to get it to show up. In the first pic, you can see it on the fender where it meets the gasket. The rest, it’s fairly obvious the “big” spot along with all the other small ones.

 

[LouisianaRubicon]

Man, that’s an incredible difference! A buddy dod that to his recently and the results were dramatic as well.

I’ve been holding off on doing paint correction because I am under the assumption you only get “so many” before you don’t get another one. I wonder, is periodic paint correction better than doing it “once”? (I assume the answer is “no” because you’re taking a small amount of paint each time.

Pardon the crappy pics - tough to get it to show up. In the first pic, you can see it on the fender where it meets the gasket. The rest, it’s fairly obvious the “big” spot along with all the other small ones.

View attachment 1819985 View attachment 1819986 View attachment 1819987

Yes, you are taking paint off each time or clear coat if you're working on the gray. I'm not going for show car perfect paint but it takes my 22 year old cruiser and makes it look 6-7 years old. The results you see above are with a mild correcting polish w/ an "orange" cutting pad (medium cutting) after two or three passes on the panel. So in summary, yes paint was removed but it was a microscopic amount. Be careful because you are working with very old paint and you can burn it. I didn't but a "professional" did when this last done about 4 years ago. Use your head and you'll be fine. I'll do mine once a year or so.

As for your paint. You've got the same thing going on as most everyone else. The clear coat on the gray is bubbling up from age, wear and exposure to UV rays. Unfortunately, most clear coats lose 50% of their ability to protect from UV light after 5 years. I imagine theres not much protection left after 20+ years. Not much you can do other than put a high quality sealant/wax on it often (every couple of months depending on conditions). As for the black, you've got typical spotting that will occur from water (mud). Honestly, it will get worse if not addressed. My hood looks terrible because of this. The benefit to the single stage paint Toyota used is that it is soft and will correct easily. You won't be removing much paint at all. You would see very nice results from a paint cleaner (very mild)/ cleaner wax. This will remove all of the bonded contaminants. You could go to polishing at this point ( I would). Remember, its not like you're going to do this frequently. Then you just need to keep it protected and use an "all in one" product like HD speed or HD ONE when you need it. The protection will help in avoiding scratches, not magic but better than nothing. This will give you incredible looking paint with just a little effort. You'll scratch it up and do it again next year. Clean and protected is your best defense.

Process:
-Wash (aggressive soap. No PH neutral stuff as it will not remove the contaminants well) and rinse throughly.
-Clay bar while car is wet (use some lubrication like a quick detailer)
-Dry throughly
-Use paint cleaner (I like HD speed but it will leave wax on there) but a good over the counter cleaner will get you some results.
-Polish
-wash
-dry
-Sealant/wax ( a synthetic with lots of fillers works well and will make that black pop to life by filling all the micro imprecations. Meguiars NXT works well and is cheap)

Then obviously wash and wax when it needs it. Then no such thing as waxing too often.

If you want to be a total nerd like me:

The practical differences between a single stage paints and clear coat paints

 

[rockstate45]

Yes, you are taking paint off each time or clear coat if you're working on the gray. I'm not going for show car perfect paint but it takes my 22 year old cruiser and makes it look 6-7 years old. The results you see above are with a mild correcting polish w/ an "orange" cutting pad (medium cutting) after two or three passes on the panel. So in summary, yes paint was removed but it was a microscopic amount. Be careful because you are working with very old paint and you can burn it. I didn't but a "professional" did when this last done about 4 years ago. Use your head and you'll be fine. I'll do mine once a year or so.

As for your paint. You've got the same thing going on as most everyone else. The clear coat on the gray is bubbling up from age, wear and exposure to UV rays. Unfortunately, most clear coats lose 50% of their ability to protect from UV light after 5 years. I imagine theres not much protection left after 20+ years. Not much you can do other than put a high quality sealant/wax on it often (every couple of months depending on conditions). As for the black, you've got typical spotting that will occur from water (mud). Honestly, it will get worse if not addressed. My hood looks terrible because of this. The benefit to the single stage paint Toyota used is that it is soft and will correct easily. You won't be removing much paint at all. You would see very nice results from a paint cleaner (very mild)/ cleaner wax. This will remove all of the bonded contaminants. You could go to polishing at this point ( I would). Remember, its not like you're going to do this frequently. Then you just need to keep it protected and use an "all in one" product like HD speed or HD ONE when you need it. The protection will help in avoiding scratches, not magic but better than nothing. This will give you incredible looking paint with just a little effort. You'll scratch it up and do it again next year. Clean and protected is your best defense.

Process:
-Wash (aggressive soap. No PH neutral stuff as it will not remove the contaminants well) and rinse throughly.
-Clay bar while car is wet (use some lubrication like a quick detailer)
-Dry throughly
-Use paint cleaner (I like HD speed but it will leave wax on there) but a good over the counter cleaner will get you some results.
-Polish
-wash
-dry
-Sealant/wax ( a synthetic with lots of fillers works well and will make that black pop to life by filling all the micro imprecations. Meguiars NXT works well and is cheap)

Then obviously wash and wax when it needs it. Then no such thing as waxing too often.

If you want to be a total nerd like me:

The practical differences between a single stage paints and clear coat paints

Awesome information, thanks for taking the time to post up! I think I'll go to the next step of a paint cleaner and have narrowed it down to one of two - the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion or the Dodo Juice Lime (without abrasives). Might as well keep "nice things nice" as this will give me a lot of the result without going into polishing (which I might do at a later date).

What's your pick on the pre-wax cleaner? Do you have a preference on one of the above?

Jack

 

[White Stripe]

I'm having the body of my 80 covered in clear bra. Every few years I'll have to have the clear bra redone.

 

[danthman114]

I don't worry about my paint. if I buffed out the scratches one day they will be there again the next time I go out...

 

[rockstate45]

I don't worry about my paint. if I buffed out the scratches one day they will be there again the next time I go out...

Agreed - not worried so much about the scratches as I am the "blotching" on the paint. Even then, it'll (likely) happen the next time I'm out anyway so I'll get used to it soon. The pre-wax cleaner is a little experiment to see if it'll revive it a little. Two steps forward, one step back?

 

[LouisianaRubicon]

Awesome information, thanks for taking the time to post up! I think I'll go to the next step of a paint cleaner and have narrowed it down to one of two - the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion or the Dodo Juice Lime (without abrasives). Might as well keep "nice things nice" as this will give me a lot of the result without going into polishing (which I might do at a later date).

What's your pick on the pre-wax cleaner? Do you have a preference on one of the above?

Jack

Both products you've named are well liked but I would also consider Klasse AIO. What wax have you been using and have you used a clay bar?

 

[danthman114]

mothers has a 3 stage "kit", for lack of a better name, I use on my truck. comes with 3 bottles. the first is a tar/bug/old wax remover, the second bottle is for buffing out scratches and the third is a wax. it worked well on my Dakota when I was in the service. I spent all my spare time off road back then and my paint always looked like it did when I bought the truck new.

 

[80t0ylc]

Just an opinion, but it's not the "mud" that's "eating your clearcoat". It's the force behind the mud when it's kicked up or slung from your tires that's doing the damage. I know they don't look cool and they can get damaged or scraped off when your wheeling, but mud flaps of some sort is about the best you could do. BTW, the open sliders are great while you're wheeling, but do very little for protecting your clearcoat from debris kicked up by your tires.

 

[rockstate45]

Both products you've named are well liked but I would also consider Klasse AIO. What wax have you been using and have you used a clay bar?

I'll check out the Klasse. I think I have the Meguiar's NXT wax in the cabinet and the Mother's Clay Bar kit.

@80t0ylc, can you go into more detail on that? There aren't any dings or dents from the mud that coats it? Additionally, I haven't really had any issues with mud except the last couple of weeks because of how rainy it's been. The LX flares oddly do a great job of keeping mud contained in the wheelwells.

Jack

 

[joez]

I'll check out the Klasse. I think I have the Meguiar's NXT wax in the cabinet and the Mother's Clay Bar kit.

@80t0ylc, can you go into more detail on that? There aren't any dings or dents from the mud that coats it? Additionally, I haven't really had any issues with mud except the last couple of weeks because of how rainy it's been. The LX flares oddly do a great job of keeping mud contained in the wheelwells.

Jack

Mud hitting your paint and going "splat" will cause very small scratches in the clear. I'm guessing that's what he is referring to.

 

[LouisianaRubicon]

I'll check out the Klasse. I think I have the Meguiar's NXT wax in the cabinet and the Mother's Clay Bar kit.

@80t0ylc, can you go into more detail on that? There aren't any dings or dents from the mud that coats it? Additionally, I haven't really had any issues with mud except the last couple of weeks because of how rainy it's been. The LX flares oddly do a great job of keeping mud contained in the wheelwells.

Jack

NXT is a good wax. Lots of fillers in it to hide imperfections. Definitely use that clay and follow up with a cleaner to see how it does. Can you feel the spots on the paint? It really looks like etching which can occur from water/mud. Even a good wax or sealant can only last a couple of months under ideal conditions (no mud or water). I would also consider an all in one product like HD speed or HD One. They will provide some mild correction, hide some imperfections while leaving a layer of protection behind. A strong sealant: I like Jescar Power Lock +.

So everyone is on the same page in the thread, the Black paint has no clear coat. It is single stage.

 

[80t0ylc]

..... @80t0ylc, can you go into more detail on that? There aren't any dings or dents from the mud that coats it? Additionally, I haven't really had any issues with mud except the last couple of weeks because of how rainy it's been. The LX flares oddly do a great job of keeping mud contained in the wheelwells.

Jack

Sure. We're talking paint damage, not sheet metal damage, yet anyway. Your flares protect a lot of your bodywork, but can't protect the lower part of your doors & rocker panels. See pics of mine. Pics include one just after I installed sliders. If you zoom a little you can see no damage as compared to todays pics. Mud is abrasive when it's applied and also when it's removed. And if you sling it on, it amplifies the abrasive damage. The damage on mine was caused from little rocks, I call them rock picks...lol. Anyway, you can see where I brushed away the dirt to show the damage. Similar damage will happen from repeated mud coatings. If you draw an imaginary line from where the tire touches the ground to any place on the side of your rig that's not protected by the flares, that's the area that's susceptible to mud or debris thrown up by the front tires. And as you can see, the slider did very little to protect from this.
Today:

Pulled back a little

Taken just after sliders were installed. Previous running boards protected rockers & lower doors.

My point is you can polish, wax and treat all you want, but unless you provide some protection from the debris hitting the paint, you'll eventually have to replace the paint.

 

[rockstate45]

NXT is a good wax. Lots of fillers in it to hide imperfections. Definitely use that clay and follow up with a cleaner to see how it does. Can you feel the spots on the paint? It really looks like etching which can occur from water/mud. Even a good wax or sealant can only last a couple of months under ideal conditions (no mud or water). I would also consider an all in one product like HD speed or HD One. They will provide some mild correction, hide some imperfections while leaving a layer of protection behind. A strong sealant: I like Jescar Power Lock +.

So everyone is on the same page in the thread, the Black paint has no clear coat. It is single stage.

Oddly looking forward to giving it a clean before the winter comes. I think you’re right about etching - it’s a little “rough” where the spots are but not in a manner that the clay has removed.

That Pinnacle product I ordered will be here Friday so I’ll give it a whirl then

 

[rockstate45]

Washed the 80 tonight and spent some time claybarring. The hood was nasty and took some serious time to get clean, while the rest of the body panels were pretty much a “wipe down.” I was expecting this for the most part.

Interestingly enough, the spots, more or less, worked their way out with a gentle claybar. Tomorrow, I’ll do the trim and use that Pinnacle cleansing lotion before I do a wax. Not expecting a miracle on any of the scratches (hey, it’s just gonna get a scraping the next time I’m out).

This thing gets way too much attention, deserved or not.

Before/after pics below:

 

[rockstate45]

Quick update - used a claybar, that Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion, and put on two coats of wax. Not sure the paint deserves to be that smooth or shiny but it's as smooth as it's been in the last 20 years right now. Even my little brother, who's obvious to all things automotive, noticed that I didn't claybar/wax the rear hatch when he ran his hand over it.

Not sure the Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion really did much but it'll be good for my DD if/when I get around to doing that. There are no abrasives there so it was a bit of a long shot on the above. Pinnacle will tell you it'll "round out scratches and remove swirl marks."

Unless anybody wants to see some before/after pictures, I'll consider this one completed.