MonsterService Snorkel users - who are you?

[kcjaz]

Pulling this out from a separate snorkel thread to get better visibility. According to this company, they have sold "several" of their 200 series snorkels to U.S. customers. I'm hoping these customers are on Mud and can provide feedback on the snorkel. Feedback would also be good from non-U.S. customers too. One of my questions is fitment to U.S. spec LC but general quality and company feedback would be good too.

MonsterService

 

[brasskey]

Pulling this out from a separate snorkel thread to get better visibility. According to this company, they have sold "several" of their 200 series snorkels to U.S. customers. I'm hoping these customers are on Mud and can provide feedback on the snorkel. Feedback would also be good from non-U.S. customers too. One of my questions is fitment to U.S. spec LC but general quality and company feedback would be good too.

MonsterService

I’ve seen this snorkel brought up over the years, but have never seen a Mud user post anything about actually buying and installing one. Maybe I’m wrong.

 

[bloc]

Also if possible, dyno numbers.

That is a long, thin straw, to be sucking 381hp worth of air through.

 

[linuxgod]

@Eric Sarjeant had a similarly low profile (but different) snorkel. You might check what he had.

I agree airflow could be an issue in the petrol V8.

 

[brasskey]

@Eric Sarjeant had a similarly low profile (but different) snorkel. You might check what he had.

I agree airflow could be an issue in the petrol V8.

I believe he had the Fabulous Fabrications on his personal 200.

 

[kcjaz]

I believe he had the Fabulous Fabrications on his personal 200.

He has the FF snorkel. I took pics of it at LCDC. That is probably the way I will go. This low profile one just looks cool.

I send the company an email asking for cross section area.

 

[99toylc]

I looked at the Monster snorkel a few years ago and I liked the profile of it, but from what I understand they make it out of (two halves of and glued together) Fiberglass and not even primed and painted to match (raw fiberglass) - no thank you !

It is a company based in Russia (nothing against that) but their products are all about the looks and not the function of an actual off road vehicle and to me that eliminates it from my radar.

As a second thought I don't see how this would work properly in winter conditions with icing from the windshield / snow packing the inlet opening, etc.

 

[linuxgod]

He has the FF snorkel. I took pics of it at LCDC. That is probably the way I will go. This low profile one just looks cool.

I send the company an email asking for cross section area.

If you like this design I'd look at the TJM

TJM Airtec Snorkel for Toyota Land Cruiser 200 Series (2008-2014)

Features Snorkels assist 4×4 vehicles with deep water crossings and provide hassle free air induction when immersed in dust. The TJM Airtec Snorkel provides air that is cooler and cleaner at roof level than air travelling via the bonnet. These are important factors, particularly when 4x4ing on...

tgmoverland.com

I have the Dobinson's (which seems to be a direct clone of the ARB). Honestly I like that because if I ever have an issue (something cracks or whatever) I can find an ARB replacement which won't require me to re-modify the fender. These others with unique designs (and fender cuts) are find I suppose but if you ever have an issue or if you're just unhappy with it you're going to have to replace with an identical model or else you may end up replacing the fender to change the snorkel.

 

[AnyMal]

Ive been meaning to ask about this for a while. It looks fantastic.

I looked at the Monster snorkel a few years ago and I liked the profile of it, but from what I understand they make it out of (two halves of and glued together) Fiberglass and not even primed and painted to match (raw fiberglass) - no thank you !

It is a company based in Russia (nothing against that) but their products are all about the looks and not the function of an actual off road vehicle and to me that eliminates it from my radar.

As a second thought I don't see how this would work properly in winter conditions with icing from the windshield / snow packing the inlet opening, etc.

Airflow is a concern for sure, and as far as snow and rain, im not sure how the TJM will fair against that either. Or anything without a bell cap housing.

 

[Zsolt]

Roca Silva snorkel másé in Spain. Also fiberglass

 

[linuxgod]

Ive been meaning to ask about this for a while. It looks fantastic.



Airflow is a concern for sure, and as far as snow and rain, im not sure how the TJM will fair against that either. Or anything without a bell cap housing.

View attachment 2757735

My ARB-clone Dobinson's snorkel has never iced up on me. I've heard it can happen, but I guess Chicago snow isn't sticky enough or something. Plus side of ARB/Dobinson is you can turn the head around to face backwards, so if it is icing up you can just rotate 180 degrees temporarily.

 

[AnyMal]

This looks pretty slick.
Can we get some pics of the inlet? Where does one buy these?

View attachment 2757752Roca Silva snorkel másé in Spain. Also fiberglass

 

[kcjaz]

So I've been emailing with the manufacturer. They are fairly responsive. Here is what they say about air flow/crosssection area. There is maybe a bit if a language issue here but I think they are saying that the crossectional area is not less than the inlet to the air box. The pictures don't look like that and they are not really providing dimensions that make sense to me but I believe they are understanding the question and they are clearing saying they have considered it and maybe air flow was a problem but now (3rd gen design) air flow is not a problem. My rough numbers (no actual measurements) are that the inlet is about a 4" diameter which is about 100mm. a 3.5" x 3.5" or a 6" x 2" duct would have the same area, so maybe it is close. It would still be great to hear from an actual user on this.

 

[linuxgod]

Even if the opening is the same size, I'm not sure if the volume of air is. Consider the factory air setup is short but hidden in the wheel well, while this one is longer but gets air rammed directly into it... assuming airflow doesn't "skip" over it if the profile is low.

To think about problems like this I like to think in extremes. Consider (for simplicity):

• A 4" x 4" inlet is 16 square inches. A 0.25" x 64" inlet is also 16 square inches. If you stick the former off to the side of the A pillar (like a Safari) and compare to the latter laying horizontal across the roof line (like a light bar), which one is likely to "capture" more air?
  • Now consider if air from the windshield flows over the 64" wide version due to aerodynamics. Far fetched? Consider that if I put my kayaks on the roof with the seating areas open but facing inward and both angles down (like a ^) and drive in heavy rain they do NOT get water inside... apparently the air mainly flows around the outside.
• In HVAC, longer duct runs add friction so while an 6" wide HVAC duct that is 5' long might move 100 CFM, if your duct is 50' long you might need an 8" wide duct to move the same 100 CFM as the friction of air moving across the interior surface of the duct slows down the flow and would result in something like 60 CFM of air. The snorkel tube is shorter but the physics of airflow is the same
  • Similarly in HVAC every bend adds "total effective length" (TEL) which means a 5' long duct with three short 90 degree elbows might have as much friction as a straight 50' run or possibly a 25' run with six wide radius 45s. I expect this would be similar depending on the number of bends in the snorkel, so how many turns and how tight they are will affect airflow too.

I don't know the theoretical CFM available in either this snorkel or a Safari or TJM, but whatever they are needs to be as much as the 5.7 requires at peak throttle.

 

[kcjaz]

Even if the opening is the same size, I'm not sure if the volume of air is. Consider the factory air setup is short but hidden in the wheel well, while this one is longer but gets air rammed directly into it... assuming airflow doesn't "skip" over it if the profile is low.

To think about problems like this I like to think in extremes. Consider (for simplicity):

• A 4" x 4" inlet is 16 square inches. A 0.25" x 64" inlet is also 16 square inches. If you stick the former off to the side of the A pillar (like a Safari) and compare to the latter laying horizontal across the roof line (like a light bar), which one is likely to "capture" more air?
  • Now consider if air from the windshield flows over the 64" wide version due to aerodynamics. Far fetched? Consider that if I put my kayaks on the roof with the seating areas open but facing inward and both angles down (like a ^) and drive in heavy rain they do NOT get water inside... apparently the air mainly flows around the outside.
• In HVAC, longer duct runs add friction so while an 6" wide HVAC duct that is 5' long might move 100 CFM, if your duct is 50' long you might need an 8" wide duct to move the same 100 CFM as the friction of air moving across the interior surface of the duct slows down the flow and would result in something like 60 CFM of air. The snorkel tube is shorter but the physics of airflow is the same
  • Similarly in HVAC every bend adds "total effective length" (TEL) which means a 5' long duct with three short 90 degree elbows might have as much friction as a straight 50' run or possibly a 25' run with six wide radius 45s. I expect this would be similar depending on the number of bends in the snorkel, so how many turns and how tight they are will affect airflow too.

I don't know the theoretical CFM available in either this snorkel or a Safari or TJM, but whatever they are needs to be as much as the 5.7 requires at peak throttle.

Yes. There is more to it than cross sectional area but that is a sanity check. I would say all snorkels are a restriction of air flow compared to not having a snorkel. I suppose someone might argue some kind of “ram” affect if the inlet faces forward.

the only real way to know if there is any real affect is a before and after dyno test.

maybe I can get the guy to give me a snorkel if I do dyno tests and let him have the data….

 

[bloc]

It is much more complex than pure cross section though. A round cross section is the best for flow because a greater proportion of the air is further from the wall, where the friction is generated. I know I’m doing a great job of butchering the technical terms, but it has to do with a fluid being able to flow at a much higher rate the further away it gets from a wall, and the rate of increase being exponential, not linear.

I do these calculations for water, which is much more viscous, but to show how disproportionate cross section is to flow, a 50% increase in diameter will reduce our friction coefficients by 92%. Like for 2” hose the coefficient is 8, for 3” hose it is 0.67

Imagine a 5” pipe with a 19 square inch cross section, now picture the same pipe squeezed almost flat where it is only 1/2” across.. same cross section, but it isn’t going to flow anywhere near as much of any fluid, or gas, and this is because at any given point the fluid can only be 1/4” from the wall. The stuff in the middle never gets a chance to speed up.

The pipe on this part appears to be quite flat.

Plus, the length of the pipe matters, a lot. Resistance to flow through a given pipe will be proportional to its length. So if the stock airbox intake horn is 3” long, and we add 3 feet of pipe to that…

Is this even designed for the 5.7? I could see it maybe working for the 4.6 or 4.0, or even the horsepower numbers of the 4.5 diesel. But 380+ hp is a pretty good amount of air to be sucking through a straw. And ram-air effect is only going to work once the vehicle is moving at a substantial speed..