You don't hold pressure for 36 hours on a cylinder leakdown test. It's not even possible. Have to test each cylinder individually.
Misfires on 3 cylinders—likely evap issues, flooded charcoal canister led to misfires (2021, 75K miles)
- Thread starter HSTexan
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You don't hold pressure for 36 hours on a cylinder leakdown test. It's not even possible. Have to test each cylinder individually.
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- #62
It that's the case then it's more of the same with the advisor misunderstanding and conveying what the tech has done. Next time they call I've got a running list of questions and will add this back on
You should talk to the tech directly.
[Most] Service advisors are glorified customer service agents.
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I have to disagree. Not ALL service advisors are that way.
Some of us are prior techs that have a brain and got out of wrenching, yet still know more than most techs.
I do feel like there is some more to the story and likely multiple techs with varying levels of experience working on this rig.
I’m along for the ride and bringing popcorn
I will edit it to say "Most".I have to disagree. Not ALL service advisors are that way.
Some of us are prior techs that have a brain and got out of wrenching, yet still know more than most techs.
I do feel like there is some more to the story and likely multiple techs with varying levels of experience working on this rig.
I’m along for the ride and bringing popcorn
The best service advisors are prior techs. But it’s rare because most of us techs are socially inept.I have to disagree. Not ALL service advisors are that way.
Some of us are prior techs that have a brain and got out of wrenching, yet still know more than most techs.
I do feel like there is some more to the story and likely multiple techs with varying levels of experience working on this rig.
I’m along for the ride and bringing popcorn
I’m just razzing you.
The best service advisors are prior techs. But it’s rare because most of us techs are socially inept.
True story. My techs don’t need to talk to people. They are great techs. Terrible at communicating to customers.
I want my tech to be the most Asperger or spectrum autist around when it comes to fixing my car. I’m totally cool with that so long as he’s a wizard with the right tools. The service advisor is the “front of the house” brand rep who’s putting on the polish for the delivery of news, service rec’s, etc. Definitely a reason why this model is so popular imo and why it works overall. I’m fine with dealing with @ssholes, so long as they’re extremely competent in their craft. I know I’m in the minority with this mindset though - hence why service advisors are needed.
- Thread starter
- #71
Very quick call from them a bit ago--basic update was they were still digging. The codes that popped yesterday that I never pulled were P0300 and P0308. More of the same, but interesting that through three different rounds of codes cylinder 8 keeps popping up consistently. They drove it for 30 minutes without it coming up again and then put it under heavier load and at least can see it's only coming on once temps hit 192°
We've unfortunately got multiple workers at the house today so I did not get to spend a lot of time on the phone with them and they didn't have much to say other than they're still investigating it
We've unfortunately got multiple workers at the house today so I did not get to spend a lot of time on the phone with them and they didn't have much to say other than they're still investigating it
Sounds like the first logical step!
If misfire follows, problem solved haha.
- Thread starter
- #74
This is one giant mystery still--they saw the codes when I brought it immediately back last night. When they went to start it this morning it had cleared the codes itself and was running fine. They said they've driven it 4-5 times throughout the day, varying speeds and distances. Can't get it to trigger again even past 192° operating temp. They're going to keep it overnight and try to do some more extended drives tomorrow, maybe take it out for 30 minutes or so at a time. When I pick it up I will likely ask if they can spare 15-20 minutes to ride with me while I drive it too.
A few points of clarification that I asked about:
1. It does seem it was the coolant system pressure test they left hooked up over the weekend. However, they have done individual cylinder leak down tests as well that have passed--he confirmed they just did another on the cylinders that had specific codes today.
2. They've tested the coils and they seem to be functioning properly. Since they have not been able to replicate the misfires easily they have not swapped coils long term to see if they move sides.
3. They have pulled some fuel just to look at it and said it is normal--fuel pressure is fine, trims still look good. It did not seem to be compensating for a lean condition and the fuel does not seem to be contaminated.
4. If they can trigger codes again tomorrow or if they can't and I take it home and the codes do pop for me at some point in the near future we will immediately move to file the case with Toyota for deeper inspection of the head gasket and head for a more extensive investigation and repair.
5. When it came on at 192° I believe that was from when I triggered it before, not themselves this morning like I had assumed.
6. They inspected for rodent or wiring damage and could not find any traces of damaged harnesses or potential shorts
7. There is definitely info he provided once I asked specific questions, so perhaps it's less incompetence rather than just not going through every minute detail of what they're doing despite me preferring to hear that.
A few points of clarification that I asked about:
1. It does seem it was the coolant system pressure test they left hooked up over the weekend. However, they have done individual cylinder leak down tests as well that have passed--he confirmed they just did another on the cylinders that had specific codes today.
2. They've tested the coils and they seem to be functioning properly. Since they have not been able to replicate the misfires easily they have not swapped coils long term to see if they move sides.
3. They have pulled some fuel just to look at it and said it is normal--fuel pressure is fine, trims still look good. It did not seem to be compensating for a lean condition and the fuel does not seem to be contaminated.
4. If they can trigger codes again tomorrow or if they can't and I take it home and the codes do pop for me at some point in the near future we will immediately move to file the case with Toyota for deeper inspection of the head gasket and head for a more extensive investigation and repair.
5. When it came on at 192° I believe that was from when I triggered it before, not themselves this morning like I had assumed.
6. They inspected for rodent or wiring damage and could not find any traces of damaged harnesses or potential shorts
7. There is definitely info he provided once I asked specific questions, so perhaps it's less incompetence rather than just not going through every minute detail of what they're doing despite me preferring to hear that.
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I don’t want to take away from your thread, in fact I’d like to figure out what’s they find wrong.
My 200 (2008 with 286k) has done this exact thing 2x in a 2 month span. It did it to my spouse one day and I went and got it while it was running like trash. Misfire on passenger side bank, lean codes, barely running. Went and got a vehicle for her to drive (she didn’t want to drive the 40), get back start it up and it’s perfect.
Took it to work, cleaned the MAF and reset everything.
Zero issue until a couple weeks ago I had to haul my mower home, left the 200 idle and noticed it running rough. Got in and it’s barely running again, same symptoms. I was mad at it and drove it home with a trailer barely running. Got home, parked it. Go out the next day with a better attitude and start it up and it’s perfect. That’s been 500 miles ago with zero issue.
I don’t think you have a head gasket issue. Head gasket problems are a yes or no, not intermittent. If it’s blown it’s not going to magically seal itself on an ignition cycle.
I’m very curious as what they decide fixes it.
I’ve been meaning to look at diagrams and see if there is a connection between injectors/ coils on the driver side to see if one can short and cause issues.
My 200 (2008 with 286k) has done this exact thing 2x in a 2 month span. It did it to my spouse one day and I went and got it while it was running like trash. Misfire on passenger side bank, lean codes, barely running. Went and got a vehicle for her to drive (she didn’t want to drive the 40), get back start it up and it’s perfect.
Took it to work, cleaned the MAF and reset everything.
Zero issue until a couple weeks ago I had to haul my mower home, left the 200 idle and noticed it running rough. Got in and it’s barely running again, same symptoms. I was mad at it and drove it home with a trailer barely running. Got home, parked it. Go out the next day with a better attitude and start it up and it’s perfect. That’s been 500 miles ago with zero issue.
I don’t think you have a head gasket issue. Head gasket problems are a yes or no, not intermittent. If it’s blown it’s not going to magically seal itself on an ignition cycle.
I’m very curious as what they decide fixes it.
I’ve been meaning to look at diagrams and see if there is a connection between injectors/ coils on the driver side to see if one can short and cause issues.
It sounds like you’ve got a real difficult mystery going on that isn’t easy to replicate and only seems to pop up for you, a total nightmare for both an owner and service tech. Your point number 7 sounds reassuring, they are usually dealing with vehicle mid-wits so they keep their data dumbed down to the bare minimum to save themselves the headaches of educating.
Just throwing more wet noodles on the wall here, it was raining when it first happened, has rain been a constant when the issue has happened?
Also, I’m throwing my lot in on not HG related. The cross hatching looks good in that bore scope pic and I don’t recall reading about low coolant.
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- #77
Correct on the rain when it first happened, but when I tried to take it home yesterday it was a sunny 70° outside
Also correct on the coolant--it's never needed to be topped off ever and I've never seen the needle even a single dash mark higher than it's normal level on the temp gauge.
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- #78
100% agree--I think they jumped the gun on their initial assessment on Saturday and did not see what they thought they saw. I'm almost afraid that them saying they're going to take it to Toyota is because they don't know where else to look or how to fix it.
I’ve had the same issue during monsoon rains on the highway. Under throttle and goes into limp mode with check engine. Mine has been cleared each time with an engine restart after a couple minutes. Sometimes it has happened under heavy load. OBD codes are always misfires. Borescoped with no coolant signs, no coolant usage and UOA is clean. Fuel pressures tested within spec. I’m more convinced it’s an electrical issue.
Weird symptoms. If I follow the symptoms and checks already performed, it would lead me to bank specific issues of which there are not that many left.
Things like ignitions drivers, harnesses, or even transistors in the ECM. Though I typically have confidence in Toyota ECMs, especially this new.
Something does seem to be going on as indicated by the spark plugs and knock codes.
I would possibly be suspicious of the VVTi system. Perhaps the VVTi mechanisms or specifically the solenoid on that bank.
Things like ignitions drivers, harnesses, or even transistors in the ECM. Though I typically have confidence in Toyota ECMs, especially this new.
Something does seem to be going on as indicated by the spark plugs and knock codes.
I would possibly be suspicious of the VVTi system. Perhaps the VVTi mechanisms or specifically the solenoid on that bank.