Melted battery terminal, must replace? (1 Viewer)

[landcruiser420]

First of all, I want to thank everyone here because I am a first time car (and thus first time Landcruiser) owner. I live in Tanzania where mechanics are trained to make repairs in the most inexpensive way with the resources available, so this forum has been invaluable to me gaining knowledge regarding Landcruisers.

With that said, I apologize if my questions are dumb, I have tried to do as much research as possible before posting here.


Yesterday I was driving and the brake line cracked. I was trying to navigate to the garage with the clutch and hand break. I stalled the car to come to a stop and then turned the ignition but I don't think I left enough time for the system to cool down. Suddenly smoke came from under the hood and one of the battery terminals.

We saw the battery had been clamped on by a non-matching nut/bolt set and so it was probably loose, also creating a lot of friction and heat. We got an new bolt and we were able to go on our way.

MUST I replace the battery? I assume if the terminal connection is not tight and smooth, I'll risk the same thing happening again?

 

[AndrewHadji]

If thats how it looked, it was indeed heat but not from friction. Not having a solid electrical connection causes heat through the resistance that is caused by a crappy connection. That wire looks to be half broken off, leaving a very small area for the current to run through. You are looking at replacing at least that cable, im assuming positive based on post. Not just the end, but the whole cable. Once it heats up past a certain point the cable jacket becomes brittle and you risk more fire.

As for the battery, if that broken post means you cant securely connect a terminal, yes.

 

[Eric Winkworth]

yea you need a good secure connection, I actually ditched my regular connections when I went to group 31's, they come with threaded posts, which I prefer big time, and obviously so do commerical trucks.

 

[landcruiser420]

If thats how it looked, it was indeed heat but not from friction. Not having a solid electrical connection causes heat through the resistance that is caused by a crappy connection. That wire looks to be half broken off, leaving a very small area for the current to run through. You are looking at replacing at least that cable, im assuming positive based on post. Not just the end, but the whole cable. Once it heats up past a certain point the cable jacket becomes brittle and you risk more fire.

As for the battery, if that broken post means you cant securely connect a terminal, yes.

Well, the connection is secure, at least to get enough current to start the car and drive. As you can see in the original picture there IS a gap where the terminal burned off, which I assume is bad for connectivity, so while secure it is not evenly distributed. I'll replace the battery for sure then.

As for the wire, thanks for that interesting information but now I am worried I should replace all the wires? Take a look at my batteries below, please refrain from being horrified :-/

 

[fossilcruiser]

Where are you in TZ? I'll getting to Dar on Sunday and then will be west on Songea for about 3 weeks.

 

[RET2]

Well, the connection is secure, at least to get enough current to start the car and drive. As you can see in the original picture there IS a gap where the terminal burned off, which I assume is bad for connectivity, so while secure it is not evenly distributed. I'll replace the battery for sure then.

As for the wire, thanks for that interesting information but now I am worried I should replace all the wires? Take a look at my batteries below, please refrain from being horrified :-/

Not only yes but Hell yes. You are looking at the potential of a real disaster/ electrical fire. Battery cables are inexpensive.

 

[landcruiser420]

Where are you in TZ? I'll getting to Dar on Sunday and then will be west on Songea for about 3 weeks.

Wish we could meet! I'm in Moshi and on Saturday we will be driving from Moshi>Singida>Mwanza>Bukoba, which is unfortunately the opposite end of the country. PM me if you want any advice on TZ!

Not only yes but Hell yes. You are looking at the potential of a real disaster/ electrical fire. Battery cables are inexpensive.

okay, so I will replace the battery (since the terminal is bad) as well as the battery cables. If I am understanding this correctly, no copper wiring should be exposed adn everything should fit very tight? Since the short happened throughout the 24v system I'll be safe and replace all the battery cables.

It is extremely hard, if not impossible, to get original parts here so it will probably be crap cables...but at least hopefully safer than my current set up.

 

[hj 60]

If you rotate the open end of the clamp on the melted post there is not much loss and if you can cut off the messy cable or get all the wires straight under the clamp it should be fine without spending money but it does not look good.
I am afraid the new replacement wont be good and the - minus side looks like welding wire or something.
Original toyota + battery wire and cheap jumpstarter cable is a very different quality so I don't think buying new bad stuff is helping.
if you want to spend money buy new soft line brake cables and don't wait for them to break open.
if you place a lot of pictures here on this forum we can tell what is ok.

I store all hj60 24v manuals in link below, don't know what type land-cruiser you have but try to do work ourself, don't trust mechanic:
hj60.freeforums.org • View topic - HJ60 Model/Parts finder,maintenance PDF 1000 pages

 

[landcruiser420]

If you rotate the open end of the clamp on the melted post there is not much loss and if you can cut off the messy cable or get all the wires straight under the clamp it should be fine without spending money but it does not look good.
I am afraid the new replacement wont be good and the - minus side looks like welding wire or something.
Original toyota + battery wire and cheap jumpstarter cable is a very different quality so I don't think buying new bad stuff is helping.
if you want to spend money buy new soft line brake cables and don't wait for them to break open.
if you place a lot of pictures here on this forum we can tell what is ok.

I store all hj60 24v manuals in link below, don't know what type land-cruiser you have but try to do work ourself, don't trust mechanic:
hj60.freeforums.org • View topic - HJ60 Model/Parts finder,maintenance PDF 1000 pages

This is very interesting. My goal is to research and see if I can manage to convert the starter to a 12v. I have a 1990 J70 and I've read some threads on the 24v system but it seems like a project for another time and perhaps when I've learned a bit more.

I'm a little confused what you all mean by the "cut off the messy cable or get all the wires straight"...are you referring to the bare wire that is surrounding the terminal clamp? You are very correct in that they might replace the wire with another bad wire but I am going to go on a VERY long road trip shortly so the peace of mind of a new (non fractured!) battery terminal plus a new wire might be worth it? Obviously I don't want to spend any extra money and it seems a shame I can't just replace the battery terminal (from what I've read it's quite the job) but I absolutely don't want to be in the middle of Tanzania with a battery on fire :-/

 

[clintnz]

If you rotate the open end of the clamp on the melted post there is not much loss

That's what I'd do. Batteries are expensive! You may also be able to find a battery terminal clamp that is a little smaller, then file down the battery post to fit that nicely. Could also file a little flat on the burnt side, drill a hole through & bolt a lug on direct.

I'd be way more concerned about the daggy connections of the cables to those clamps. A better setup is to have a properly sized lug crimped on to the cable, then that lug bolted to the terminal clamp. Nothing wrong with using properly sized (or bigger) welding or jumper cable to replace the big cables on a vehicle, if it's big enough & the strands are copper & suitably fine it will work. Just watch out for cheap jumper cables that have 5mm of insulation & 2mm of wire!

...or if you can't find better terminal clamps one way to improve the connection is to strip back the cable to some clean straight wire & fill the end with solder, then have that soldered section in the cable clamp. Also make sure the cables are well secured so they don't flex around & stress the connection.

Cheers
Clint

 

[jblueridge]

The good news is that 24V systems can work well with smaller diameter wires than 12V.

 

[Diesel Cruiserman]

Looks like a resistance problem, those clamp down better connectors are only good for getting you out of the bush..always crimp or soldier the fittings for a life time fitting.

 

[landcruiser420]

Thank you everyone so much for the information. I at least feel like I now have a basic understanding. Here is what the mechanic did today. He replaced the wire in two spots, replaced the terminal, and replaced the fitting that connects the terminal to the battery. I was really happy I didn't have to buy a new battery and everything feels tight and snug. Thoughts?

FYI, in Tanzania the price for this repair was $16 USD, which included labor. You know what they say...you get what you pay for...

 

[RET2]

While far less than ideal it will work. Keep an eye on the clamping of the actual cables as it is the area most likely to cause problems. Nice repair on the eroded battery terminal BTW

 

[JuanJ]

Hello,

My apologies if this sounds a bit too obvious.

Some dielectric grease or Vaseline in the terminals will help. Lead terminals tend to produce lead sulfate over time; grease/Vaseline prevents this.

Can you get plastic covers for the terminals? Protection for the terminals and cheap insurance in my humble opinion.







Juan

 

[landcruiser420]

Hi all- Just wanted to give an update on the situation in case someone else in the future finds themselves contemplating this type of repair....

As mentioned I replaced the battery terminal. Unfortunately there is a small leakage and there is constant accumulation of battery acid(?) on the terminal and the surrounding area. It's been working okay but I have to clean off the terminal at least once a month. I refilled the battery water once but I'll likely have the replace the battery at some point. In short, probably better to buy a new battery if you can't guarantee the terminal can be replaced with a very tight fit.

 

[roscoFJ73]

My goal is to research and see if I can manage to convert the starter to a 12v. I have a 1990 J70 and I've read some threads on the 24v system but it seems like a project for another time and perhaps when I've learned a bit more

I think you would be better off learning more about how to maintain a 24volt system. Personally I would rather have a 12volt system so you can rely on a single battery. But anyone who knows electrical systems can get good service from a 24v vehicle.