Builds Machito the LBJ70 (1 Viewer)

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Test drive impressions -

Overall the initial drives went well. The Cummins R2.8 is well suited to smaller rigs like these 2-door models, power and torque feel appropriate for the size/weight of the vehicle. There's a fair bit of turbo noise audible, using a cone filter isn't the best setup to quiet that down but fitting a larger canister style filter box would have been very challenging. The engine pulls really well though and mpg numbers in the mid 20's are icing on the cake.

The first snafu was encountered when we headed to the alignment shop. Up on the Hunter we found that there was -1deg caster on the left and 0deg on the right. That was troublesome because it's obviously not a great setup to have negative caster but the real concern was the difference from side to side. Out on the road the problem was evident in a slight pull despite perfect toe settings. There are no plates or correcting arms for the LJ suspension so we decided to order some offset bearings from @cruiseroutfit and chose 1.8deg and 3deg correctors. By installing the 3deg version on the left and the 1.8 deg on the right we were able to get the two sides to match almost exactly and had at least a little positive caster to help steering feel. After the axle rebuild and an alignment reset everything was much improved - no more pull and improved steering feel. The owner plans to flat tow this truck so getting this right was extra important, we don't want sketchy steering behavior when it's behind his truck at highway speeds.

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The other real problem we had was noticed almost immediately - gearing. The LJ came with 4.88 gears stock which is awesome for low speed and off road duty. I'm sure it also helped the 2LT accelerate better given it's fairly lackluster performance. Unfortunately, the problem arises when you want to run 70mph which these little trucks were never really intended to do. While the Cummins has the power to do it you end up in the higher end of the rev range and the revs/boost really start to climb. We were hoping we could get away with it but found that when the engine was turning 2800-3000 rpms at cruise speed it was just too much boost and heat rejection in the cooling pack. The radiator temps would climb to 220F during normal driving above 60mph and if you took it up a grade they were even more quick to jump into the red. We contemplated options with the owner but at the end of the day the he really wanted to make sure the truck was highway capable so we made the hard choice...

IMG_20200812_094121.jpg


Out came the 4.88's and in went 4.11's. We went with 4.11 to make the front axle cheap/easy since we could just insert an 80-series front diff in place of the 4.88's. The rear was torn down and we got a set of minitruck 8" 4.11's to match the front. 3.73's would have been a better choice in terms of keeping cruise rpm's down, but given the difficulty/cost of sourcing a reverse cut 3.73 ring and pinion for the front we chose to go this route.

With the truck back on the road the heat management was much improved. We could cruise at 65mph without much concern though we still did experience some overheating while going up grades with the AC on during our hotter days. Our shop is at 8000' elevation which adds an additional difficulty because the air density is about 75% of sea level so keeping vehicles cool is always tougher up here. We decided to focus on the other systems of the truck and accumulate some more miles.

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Test drive impressions -

Overall the initial drives went well. The Cummins R2.8 is well suited to smaller rigs like these 2-door models, power and torque feel appropriate for the size/weight of the vehicle. There's a fair bit of turbo noise audible, using a cone filter isn't the best setup to quiet that down but fitting a larger canister style filter box would have been very challenging. The engine pulls really well though and mpg numbers in the mid 20's are icing on the cake.

The first snafu was encountered when we headed to the alignment shop. Up on the Hunter we found that there was -1deg caster on the left and 0deg on the right. That was troublesome because it's obviously not a great setup to have negative caster but the real concern was the difference from side to side. Out on the road the problem was evident in a slight pull despite perfect toe settings. There are no plates or correcting arms for the LJ suspension so we decided to order some offset bearings from @cruiseroutfit and chose 1.8deg and 3deg correctors. By installing the 3deg version on the left and the 1.8 deg on the right we were able to get the two sides to match almost exactly and had at least a little positive caster to help steering feel. After the axle rebuild and an alignment reset everything was much improved - no more pull and improved steering feel. The owner plans to flat tow this truck so getting this right was extra important, we don't want sketchy steering behavior when it's behind his truck at highway speeds.

View attachment 2477085

The other real problem we had was noticed almost immediately - gearing. The LJ came with 4.88 gears stock which is awesome for low speed and off road duty. I'm sure it also helped the 2LT accelerate better given it's fairly lackluster performance. Unfortunately, the problem arises when you want to run 70mph which these little trucks were never really intended to do. While the Cummins has the power to do it you end up in the higher end of the rev range and the revs/boost really start to climb. We were hoping we could get away with it but found that when the engine was turning 2800-3000 rpms at cruise speed it was just too much boost and heat rejection in the cooling pack. The radiator temps would climb to 220F during normal driving above 60mph and if you took it up a grade they were even more quick to jump into the red. We contemplated options with the owner but at the end of the day the he really wanted to make sure the truck was highway capable so we made the hard choice...

View attachment 2477086

Out came the 4.88's and in went 4.11's. We went with 4.11 to make the front axle cheap/easy since we could just insert an 80-series front diff in place of the 4.88's. The rear was torn down and we got a set of minitruck 8" 4.11's to match the front. 3.73's would have been a better choice in terms of keeping cruise rpm's down, but given the difficulty/cost of sourcing a reverse cut 3.73 ring and pinion for the front we chose to go this route.

With the truck back on the road the heat management was much improved. We could cruise at 65mph without much concern though we still did experience some overheating while going up grades with the AC on during our hotter days. Our shop is at 8000' elevation which adds an additional difficulty because the air density is about 75% of sea level so keeping vehicles cool is always tougher up here. We decided to focus on the other systems of the truck and accumulate some more miles.

View attachment 2477111
View attachment 2477110
Do you think radiator size limitations effect your heat issues/Is this perhaps a limiting factor engine swaps in the 70 series?
 
where is your radiator inlet/outlet? on the 2H 70 series they are on the same side so not very efficient reduced cross flow. I ended up ordering a custom radiator from Australia where I had the inlet extended in the header tank to the filler to force cross flow and added 2" at the bottom. this fixed my overheating issues with the 2H turbo'd and so far the 12HT is running cooler than the 2H turbo did.
 
Do you think radiator size limitations effect your heat issues/Is this perhaps a limiting factor engine swaps in the 70 series?

Radiator size and airflow is a topic I'll address shortly. The quick answer is that I think the radiator is okay but airflow is a challenge. These trucks have a very small grill opening. More to come after the workday...
 
where is your radiator inlet/outlet? on the 2H 70 series they are on the same side so not very efficient reduced cross flow. I ended up ordering a custom radiator from Australia where I had the inlet extended in the header tank to the filler to force cross flow and added 2" at the bottom. this fixed my overheating issues with the 2H turbo'd and so far the 12HT is running cooler than the 2H turbo did.

We use a crossflow setup, the Cummins accommodates it well. Pump inlet is low on the driver's side, thermostat outlet is high on the passenger side.
 
It’s a nice truck and I always thought the r2.8 would go well in a Prado.
With any custom build there are a variety of challenges along the way to overcome and often some at the end as well.

I feel I may have some similar issues with a 1967 pickup we are building with an 1HDFT, GTurbo with 27psi. The grill and radiator configuration has only so many options and only offers x-amount of surface area. On top of this fitting an intercooler in the 40-series nose/grill is proving to be extremely difficult even going AtW intercooler and only need a small radiator stuffed in there.

Cheers
 
As we continued to accumulate miles on the truck things went well, the only real issue was the continuing challenge of the cooling system. I was talking with the owner during this period and we decided to take it to him at his home in Moab and let him drive it for a while to see how it would do out there in the desert. I drove it to Moab from our shop in Colorado, most of the way on Interstate 70. With the AC on and cruising at 65mph the truck was able to hold steady at about 212F. I don't remember the exact rpm but it was probably 2300 - 2500. If I pushed it to 70mph and rpm 2500+ the temps would start to climb up to 220F which was where I would back off (Cummins sets the temp alarm at 224F).

The electric fan was running the whole time but I suspected we had a fundamental airflow problem. The grill opening on the 70 is quite small and I didn't feel like we were getting adequate airflow into the cooling pack. I had an idea for an experiment so I pulled over at a rest area and removed the grill. With the grill out the temp dropped 12 degrees, showing we definitely had an incoming airflow problem. Turning the AC off dropped the temp another 8 degrees or so. So in that condition the truck would cruise okay but it's not really the way anyone want to have to drive their vehicle.

I left the truck in Moab and told him to just drive it for a few weeks and see how it did. Elevation there is a few thousand feet lower than Buena Vista so that helps some, but it was still hitting upper 80's during the day so we would get an idea of how it would do in warm weather. As he drove it for the first couple weeks he reported that it was doing fine in town, the electric fan was more than capable of keeping the engine cool while running errands and driving at lower speeds. The problem was that when he wanted to take it out to the Swell he needed to run highway speeds and it just wouldn't stay cool. We decided it was going to have to have a rework so we brought it back to BV for some updates.
 
Great stuff. So that old style grill is pretty restrictive. I even have 2 big lights in front of my grill. Totally different engine I know, but it still sounds like it's blocking air pretty good.

I wonder if the newer style grill is less restrictive.
 
As we continued to accumulate miles on the truck things went well, the only real issue was the continuing challenge of the cooling system. I was talking with the owner during this period and we decided to take it to him at his home in Moab and let him drive it for a while to see how it would do out there in the desert. I drove it to Moab from our shop in Colorado, most of the way on Interstate 70. With the AC on and cruising at 65mph the truck was able to hold steady at about 212F. I don't remember the exact rpm but it was probably 2300 - 2500. If I pushed it to 70mph and rpm 2500+ the temps would start to climb up to 220F which was where I would back off (Cummins sets the temp alarm at 224F).

The electric fan was running the whole time but I suspected we had a fundamental airflow problem. The grill opening on the 70 is quite small and I didn't feel like we were getting adequate airflow into the cooling pack. I had an idea for an experiment so I pulled over at a rest area and removed the grill. With the grill out the temp dropped 12 degrees, showing we definitely had an incoming airflow problem. Turning the AC off dropped the temp another 8 degrees or so. So in that condition the truck would cruise okay but it's not really the way anyone want to have to drive their vehicle.

I left the truck in Moab and told him to just drive it for a few weeks and see how it did. Elevation there is a few thousand feet lower than Buena Vista so that helps some, but it was still hitting upper 80's during the day so we would get an idea of how it would do in warm weather. As he drove it for the first couple weeks he reported that it was doing fine in town, the electric fan was more than capable of keeping the engine cool while running errands and driving at lower speeds. The problem was that when he wanted to take it out to the Swell he needed to run highway speeds and it just wouldn't stay cool. We decided it was going to have to have a rework so we brought it back to BV for some updates.
I recently met and spoke with a guy whose company up armors Land cruiser 79 series for overseas use by certain government agencies. They have a problem with heat after they up armor the vehicles. One of the tricks they use to fix this is to a 1/2 to 1 in spacer between the hood and the hood hinges. This creates a small Gap at the rear of the hood and around the sides but it's still closes and operates as normal. This allows heat to escape upward and increases airflow a bit. I did this on my bj73 to clear the intercooler and lines. You can try this mod out with four longer bolts and a few stacks of washers takes about 15 minutes.

Another unorthodox option to gain cool air flow is to relocate your intercooler heat exchanger or your AC condenser. If you use a air to water intercooler underneath your roof rack near the front or on the front of your roof rack is an option. Lines can be routed up the side of the snorkel. Through the Gap in the rear of the hood previously mentioned.
 
Any way of putting a manual fan on? Seems manual fans work better than any electric fan, at least for 70 series diesel applications.

Yep, that's exactly what we did. In the Cummins manual they give some guidance on manual fans but there are no bolt-on solutions. The fan mounts to a carrier bearing assembly and not the water pump so we designed an adapter to go from the Cummins bolt pattern to a commonly available fan. Finding what fan to use took a little research - reverse rotation fans and clutches are out there in a number of applications but many of them are full size trucks. The fans on these vehicles are sometimes 19 or 20 inches in diameter which just wouldn't fit in the space we had. After digging around some I ended up following the path the folks at Cummins did on one of their early builds and used a Jeep WJ fan. The Jeep fan is 17" in diameter, reverse rotation, and both fan and clutch are readily available at parts stores should there ever be a problem. I had to dust off my CAD skills to knock out this relatively simple piece...

CAD.jpg


I actually changed the design a few more times to take some weight out of it. If anyone ever needs a Cummins fan adapter let me know, I can adjust length as needed and a friend of mine has a 3-axis CNC who machines these sorts of things out when I need them. The test fit went well...

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After this it was a relatively simple affair to bolt the fan and clutch on. What wasn't simple was making the shroud. I was hustling through this one weekend so never even stopped to snap a photo but it's pretty much what you would imagine - box section coming about 2-1/2" off the radiator with a 2" fan ring on the back. I had to do some creative scalloping on it to clear the lower radiator hose, it's very tight in there. Everything fit though, and after a quick trip through the powdercoat over I got it installed and got back to test driving.

As expected, the difference between mechanical and electric fans was pretty big. Mechanical fans can flow 2x-3x the amount of air that even a good electric fan flows (the previous one we used was rated at 2000cfm). With the Jeep fan and clutch on there the truck basically sits right around 185F almost all the time. I was able to get it to creep up into the 190's once when going up a grade at 70mph with the AC on and full throttle. Other than that you can just sit and watch the thermostat open and close in the water temps.

So net message - if you're trying to put a Cummins or other engine with decent power levels in these little trucks beware of the limited front end airflow and you should probably just plan on a mechanical fan to make sure you get enough draw through the cooling pack.

I wonder if the newer style grill is less restrictive.

That's a good question, it would be an interesting A:B comparison. The truck is back with the owner now so I can't do any more experiments on it, I'll leave that to the next person to build one!
 
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Yep, that's exactly what we did. In the Cummins manual they give some guidance on manual fans but there are no bolt-on solutions. The fan mounts to a carrier bearing assembly and not the water pump so we designed an adapter to go from the Cummins bolt pattern to a commonly available fan. Finding what fan to use took a little research - reverse rotation fans and clutches are out there in a number of applications but many of them are full size trucks. The fans on these vehicles are sometimes 19 or 20 inches in diameter which just wouldn't fit in the space we had. After digging around some I ended up following the path the folks at Cummins did on one of their early builds and used a Jeep WJ fan. The Jeep fan is 17" in diameter, reverse rotation, and both fan and clutch are readily available at parts stores should there ever be a problem. I had to dust off my CAD skills to knock out this relatively simple piece...

View attachment 2480913

I actually changed the design a few more times to take some weight out of it. If anyone ever needs a Cummins fan adapter let me know, I can adjust length as needed and a friend of mine has a 3-axis CNC who machines these sorts of things out when I need them. The test fit went well...

View attachment 2480914

After this it was a relatively simple affair to bolt the fan and clutch on. What wasn't simple was making the shroud. I was hustling through this one weekend so never even stopped to snap a photo but it's pretty much what you would imagine - box section coming about 2-1/2" off the radiator with a 2" fan ring on the back. I had to do some creative scalloping on it to clear the lower radiator hose, it's very tight in there. Everything fit though, and after a quick trip through the powdercoat over I got it installed and got back to test driving.

As expected, the difference between mechanical and electric fans was pretty big. Mechanical fans can flow 2x-3x the amount of air that even a good electric fan flows (the previous one we used was rated at 2000cfm). With the Jeep fan and clutch on there the truck basically sits right around 185F almost all the time. I was able to get it to creep up into the 190's once when going up a grade at 70mph with the AC on and full throttle. Other than that you can just sit and watch the thermostat open and close in the water temps.

So net message - if you're trying to put a Cummins or other engine with decent power levels in these little trucks beware of the limited front end airflow and you should probably just plan on a mechanical fan to make sure you get enough draw through the cooling pack.



That's a good question, it would be an interesting A:B comparison. The truck is back with the owner now so I can't do any more experiments on it, I'll leave that to the next person to build one!

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Great work!
 
Not for a Cummins, but I just made a mechanical fan adapter last night for my 3B. 2x 3/4" steel pipe flange connected by a 3/4" nipple. Screwed together to correct standoff and welded. Existing holes drilled larger for correct bolt Fitment. 2xwashers under each bolt to get a little standoff for the metal cone that protrude from the water pump pulley mount.

My fabrication here and my bj-73 are not in the same league as any of the outstanding work on the rest of this thread. The adapter I made does however work cost me $13 in pipe fittings at Lowe's and 30 minutes of my time to make. I assume that it will be slightly imbalanced and im part some vibration and extra stress to the water pump bearing which at some point May fail. I can make a fixture and Chuck it in the drill press spin it and clean it up with angle grinder a bit if I want to. It was however a very quick cheap simple way to get this fan on there and test it.

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