LX700h

[rexington14]

Yeah, but she lets me take it out on the weekends.

I'm not keen on the half measures in the market right now. I love my archaic V8, and I love my long-range/ dual motor EV, but both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. When I look at the PHEVs on the market, I see all the weaknesses, and none of the strengths, from both ends of that spectrum.

Call them half measures if you want but there is no shortage of new options coming out from Toyota / Lexus. Toyota's current take on "electrification" for their BOF 4x4 "hybrids" in particular is actually quite practical as they really are just performance boosters. They don't do too much for MPG or efficiency. Frankly the EV / battery tech isn't there yet in this segment, so good on Toyota for realizing this and staying out of that game until it becomes the case.

The new vehicle prices are too high for my tastes, but otherwise it's a pretty good time to be in the market for a Toyota 4x4. That goes for new, or used - as the runs of the multiple previous generations lasted so long there will be quality used vehicles with archaic V8's or V6's that can be picked up for a long time.

 

[K Dub]

Call them half measures if you want but there is no shortage of new options coming out from Toyota / Lexus. Toyota's current take on "electrification" for their BOF 4x4 "hybrids" in particular is actually quite practical as they really are just performance boosters. They don't do too much for MPG or efficiency. Frankly the EV / battery tech isn't there yet in this segment, so good on Toyota for realizing this and staying out of that game until it becomes the case.

The new vehicle prices are too high for my tastes, but otherwise it's a pretty good time to be in the market for a Toyota 4x4. That goes for new, or used - as the runs of the multiple previous generations lasted so long there will be quality used vehicles with archaic V8's or V6's that can be picked up for a long time.

A Magnusson supercharger is the only "performance booster" I want on my off road vehicle. These hybrids are very complex systems are far less reliable than the old tech, and you need only look at the experience with Toyota's V6TTs for confirmation of that fact.

But I love EVs for what they do. My car is silly fast, comfortable, and costs me considerably less per month than the used Honda Civic Si that it replaced. That's right, leasing a brand new $55k EV costs less than buying a 2 year old Civic from CarMax. I just can't take it camping, or on my periodic 400mi day trips. Like I said, if you've got room for two cars, the best of both worlds. But these ICE platform cars, where they fill your cargo space with bulky batteries and you still get less than 20mpg in the end really suck, and I suspect will suck even more in hindsight once EV tech matures.

 

[K Dub]

Rented a Model Y to use in a commercial shoot. I drove it 30 miles, and the range dropped 60. I stopped at Whole Foods to charge it up, spent an hour hanging out, came out, and found it had lifted the meter by 3 percent. I love the tech, but it's totally impractical except for a pure commuter car.

It's funny how the charging time both is and isn't an issue. My car can charge completely in less than 30 min at a public fast charger, but I've only ever used one once because it's such a hassle. I bought a level 2 charger on Black Friday last year, but still haven't even installed an outlet for it. I'm just using the puny 110 extension cord that came with the car, which estimates about 7 days to fully charge the car. I keep it between 40-80% charged, and replace the 5% or so that I use each day commuting with an overnight slow-charge. Everyone, including the salesman, told me I can't get by on level 1 charging alone. I'm 11 months in, and haven't had any issues at all. Like I said above, I can't take it on road trips or neglect charging for two consecutive weeks, but for my ~30mi/day commute, it's been easy and stress free.

 

[Rednexus]

Our Highlander Hybrid has been an awesomely-good family hauling appliance. Boringly reliable N/A 2.5 4-banger and aughts-tech NiMH battery. Easily gets its 35 MPG combined EPA rating (and can hit 40 mpg sometimes) despite being bigger than my GX, and weighing north of 4,600 pounds. Super quiet and smooth. Minimal cargo space intrusion with the battery under the 2nd row seats. Basically none of the drawbacks of an EV or PHEV, but all of the advantages of an ICE rig with literally 50% better fuel economy.

There is a reason why EV sales are leveling off while hybrid sales are booming. Toyota made the right bet to stick with their hybrid tech.

TBH the same drivetrain combo could probably get very good fuel economy in a smaller/lighter BOF 4x4 (i.e., 3rd gen size).

 

[WTITW]

I've looked into it and I just can't justify an EV. It's like 300/month to lease one of the cheap ones when you include the down payment. Add in the extra insurance (way high on electrics isn't it?) and the tax and title and it's really more like $400/month. I commute 35 miles a day, about 4 days a week, even at 14mpg, that's only about $175-225 in fuel a month. If I drove the EV everywhere but on long trips, maybe I'd save $300/month in gas. I'd be paying $100/month plus insurance for the pleasure of driving a Hyundai or Nisan Leaf. I get not wanting to put miles on the GX, but I only paid $14K 4 years ago, so it makes more sense for me to just drive the wheels off of it, maintain the crap out of it, and buy another used one if I wreck it. I wish I wasn't peeing on the environment, but it's got to make sense financially. It might be different if I wasn't a cheap bastard or cared about having a fancy touch screen to tell me when I can change lanes.

 

[Rednexus]

I've looked into it and I just can't justify an EV. It's like 300/month to lease one of the cheap ones when you include the down payment. Add in the extra insurance (way high on electrics isn't it?) and the tax and title and it's really more like $400/month. I commute 35 miles a day, about 4 days a week, even at 14mpg, that's only about $175-225 in fuel a month. If I drove the EV everywhere but on long trips, maybe I'd save $300/month in gas. I'd be paying $100/month plus insurance for the pleasure of driving a Hyundai or Nisan Leaf. I get not wanting to put miles on the GX, but I only paid $14K 4 years ago, so it makes more sense for me to just drive the wheels off of it, maintain the crap out of it, and buy another used one if I wreck it. I wish I wasn't peeing on the environment, but it's got to make sense financially. It might be different if I wasn't a cheap bastard or cared about having a fancy touch screen to tell me when I can change lanes.

There s a large environmental impact in producing a new vehicle (hybrid, PHEV, or EV), including a sizeable carbon footprint. Lots of CO2 to obtain raw materials, process them, and haul them around the world. That's a pretty big footprint that's already made before the vehicle gets a mile on it.

 

[K Dub]

I've looked into it and I just can't justify an EV. It's like 300/month to lease one of the cheap ones when you include the down payment. Add in the extra insurance (way high on electrics isn't it?) and the tax and title and it's really more like $400/month. I commute 35 miles a day, about 4 days a week, even at 14mpg, that's only about $175-225 in fuel a month. If I drove the EV everywhere but on long trips, maybe I'd save $300/month in gas. I'd be paying $100/month plus insurance for the pleasure of driving a Hyundai or Nisan Leaf. I get not wanting to put miles on the GX, but I only paid $14K 4 years ago, so it makes more sense for me to just drive the wheels off of it, maintain the crap out of it, and buy another used one if I wreck it. I wish I wasn't peeing on the environment, but it's got to make sense financially. It might be different if I wasn't a cheap bastard or cared about having a fancy touch screen to tell me when I can change lanes.

These numbers are what shocked me when I actually settled into ownership. Here are some averages and estimates from my previous two cars:

On my 2018 Honda Civic Si I was paying:
$500/mo loan payments (2021 interest rates)
$150/mo gas
$250/mo insurance
$900/month

My 2023 Ioniq 6 costs:
$600/mo lease payments
$75/mo electricity (comparing bills to same period last year)
$175/mo insurance
$850/month

I think the insurance drop is just because every Civic Si sold is either stolen or crashed within a year. That was the most I've ever had to pay for any vehicle.

That $75/mo energy is for my July/August billing cycle, while I was cranking my A/C all day. The margins are even smaller in the winter when my total usage drops. It's really cheap to charge, and that's why I can't justify the expense of installing a 220 outlet. It would take me years to recoup that cost.

Aside from the money, the comparisons are even more stark. That Civic was a penalty box that made me wonder what I had done to deserve such torture. Being a middle aged professional in a used Civic is just humiliating.

 

[r2m]

I'm excited to see what Toyota's been up to these past few years with battery tech. That silly little thing they made with Subaru does not bode well for them, but I remain optimistic.

I'm only leasing my EV, and I suspect that's a good call. Even if it stays as reliable as it has been for the past year, you still risk a major disruption (like solid state batteries) tanking your resale value. I'm going to drive the wheels off this thing for 3 years, and then probably do it again with the performance trim that's coming next.

I've often thought that my EV wouldn't work in a 1 car household. But as a compliment to the GX, you get the best of both worlds. A pair Rav4 PHEVs would give me the best of nothing, and plenty of tradeoffs instead. But buying a GX, and leasing an Ioniq6 has been my favorite garage to date. The only thing I could see improving would be a Taycan wagon replacing the Hyundai, but I'd still only lease it. That's my dream garage though, and it just doesn't have room for a 300 series, silly light-hybrid drivetrain or not.

My idea of owning an EV is strictly as an "around town" vehicle. Shopping, short errands, etc. Never touch the GX till we're overlanding, road trip or anything further than a hundred miles or so.
Golf carts have become pretty popular round my town also, thought about one of those but, they top out a 30 MPH so driving to the harbor (Dana Point, 5 miles) is out of the question since PCH (Pacific Coast Highway) speed limit is 45 MPH. But nice feature of golf carts, parking them is great! They're soooo small.

 

[r2m]

These numbers are what shocked me when I actually settled into ownership. Here are some averages and estimates from my previous two cars:

On my 2018 Honda Civic Si I was paying:
$500/mo loan payments (2021 interest rates)
$150/mo gas
$250/mo insurance
$900/month

My 2023 Ioniq 6 costs:
$600/mo lease payments
$75/mo electricity (comparing bills to same period last year)
$175/mo insurance
$850/month

I think the insurance drop is just because every Civic Si sold is either stolen or crashed within a year. That was the most I've ever had to pay for any vehicle.

That $75/mo energy is for my July/August billing cycle, while I was cranking my A/C all day. The margins are even smaller in the winter when my total usage drops. It's really cheap to charge, and that's why I can't justify the expense of installing a 220 outlet. It would take me years to recoup that cost.

Aside from the money, the comparisons are even more stark. That Civic was a penalty box that made me wonder what I had done to deserve such torture. Being a middle aged professional in a used Civic is just humiliating.

Surprised the insurance is cheaper on the newer car than the Civic! But again, Honda's are notorious for being stolen.
Have you shopped insurance for better rates?

 

[K Dub]

Surprised the insurance is cheaper on the newer car than the Civic! But again, Honda's are notorious for being stolen.
Have you shopped insurance for better rates?

When I see the demographics of Civic Si Coupe owners vs Hyundai Ioniq 6 owners, it makes perfect sense. Buy a spoiled teenager's car, get treated like a spoiled teenager. We had just done our biannual "switch insurance companies to stop them from arbitrary rate increases" routine, so I suspect it's just a matter of actuarial tables.

 

[rexington14]

A Magnusson supercharger is the only "performance booster" I want on my off road vehicle. These hybrids are very complex systems are far less reliable than the old tech, and you need only look at the experience with Toyota's V6TTs for confirmation of that fact.

Complex and new sure. But I'd say the jury is out on long term reliability. What if they end up being more reliable? What if having an electric motor taking on a large share of higher loads / torque over tens to hundreds of thousand miles removing that stress on the ICE engine over time actually improves engine longevity?

Anyways, in the case of LX700h, there's a starter and alternator so even if you do have complete hybrid failure the traditional system can take over.

 

[K Dub]

Complex and new sure. But I'd say the jury is out on long term reliability. What if they end up being more reliable? What if having an electric motor taking on a large share of higher loads / torque over tens to hundreds of thousand miles removing that stress on the ICE engine over time actually improves engine longevity?

Anyways, in the case of LX700h, there's a starter and alternator so even if you do have complete hybrid failure the traditional system can take over.

It's their new ICE engines that can't stay on the road for a single year.

Toyota Recalls Certain Model Year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX Vehicles - Toyota USA Newsroom

PLANO, Texas (May 30, 2024)—Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain model year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX (conventional gas model only) vehicles in North America. Approximately, 102,000 Toyota and Lexus branded vehicles are involved in this recall […]

pressroom.toyota.com

IDK if this is Toyota finally catching on to planned obsolescence, or just sloppy & rushed manufacturing with insufficient QA, but I would not assume this generation of junk will maintain the reputation for reliability that Toyota developed with their naturally aspirated lineup.

 

[Rednexus]

These numbers are what shocked me when I actually settled into ownership. Here are some averages and estimates from my previous two cars:

On my 2018 Honda Civic Si I was paying:
$500/mo loan payments (2021 interest rates)
$150/mo gas
$250/mo insurance
$900/month

My 2023 Ioniq 6 costs:
$600/mo lease payments
$75/mo electricity (comparing bills to same period last year)
$175/mo insurance
$850/month

I think the insurance drop is just because every Civic Si sold is either stolen or crashed within a year. That was the most I've ever had to pay for any vehicle.

That $75/mo energy is for my July/August billing cycle, while I was cranking my A/C all day. The margins are even smaller in the winter when my total usage drops. It's really cheap to charge, and that's why I can't justify the expense of installing a 220 outlet. It would take me years to recoup that cost.

Aside from the money, the comparisons are even more stark. That Civic was a penalty box that made me wonder what I had done to deserve such torture. Being a middle aged professional in a used Civic is just humiliating.

Are those typical CA rates? We pay $221/mo for both vehicles from a reputable carrier. It was $180/mo until recently when our carrier jumped up all rates across the board.

 

[Hiluxforever]

Toyota has had massive f-ups before. In 1998 or 1999 they had a batch kf bad coolant and had to rebuild a metric f-ton of motors.

Toyota will honor it while learning from the mistake. Nobody is perfect, not Toyota, not Honda.

Hopefully it scares a bunch of people.off and the resale value drops. I miss cheap ones.

 

[r2m]

Are those typical CA rates? We pay $221/mo for both vehicles from a reputable carrier. It was $180/mo until recently when our carrier jumped up all rates across the board.

Yeah, I' sure everything cost's less were you are... Lucky you.
Don't gloat!

 

[Hiluxforever]

Omg our insurance is going up 1300 every 6 months between the move to Colorado and the extra mileage. Averaging out at 200 per vehicle.the 4runner is more than the GX even though it's half the miles.

23 year USAA customer. They are not cheap but they always do me a solid.

 

[ericm979]

My cars (Tundra, GX460, VW Golf R, all 2016-2018) are $550-750 per six months each, in the greater SF bay area. I no longer put commuter mileage on any of them but that didn't seem to make much difference. I'm looking forward to seeing what they are in Oregon when we move. With way fewer cars and less aggressive drivers it should be a lot less but who knows.

 

[GrizzlyClint]

Yeah, I' sure everything cost's less were you are... Lucky you.
Don't gloat!

Shhhhh, don't tell him I pay about ~$100/mo total for full coverage on both our vehicles.

 

[K Dub]

Shhhhh, don't tell him I pay about ~$100/mo total for full coverage on both our vehicles.

I spend a good chunk of change on transportation every month. We're a single income household, so this is quite a stretch. But you're gonna spend a lot of time on the road in LA, so it's worth investing in your comfort. If you don't like your car, it can feel like torture. I'm looking forward to owning the GX outright next year.

 

[Littlehouse]

Triple locked? Hell yes! I’d run it if I could afford it.

I wonder if they’ll do that to the 550 as well.