I’d be curious what your shortcoming are, obviously no vehicle is perfect but I feel like the LX is the best option out there. Range is for sure a shortcoming, and you could also say departure and approach angles for more extreme off roading. What are some others in your opinion?
LX700h Overtrail - First Wheeling Impressions
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It's a long list, if I'm being honest. I will tell you my personal list after nearly 10,000 miles on my LX OT. Keep in mind this is from someone who actually likes the vehicle overall.
-Range, as everyone knows. It's not just bad, it's truly pathetic. Every car I own does around 500 miles on a tank (see my signature), some do more. My LX, does about 255 on a full tank. Annoying.
-Since I'm nitpicking, Toyota needs to get with the program on capless fuel fillers. If I have to fill it up every week, at least give me that.
-Nanny beeps. Too many, too much of a PITA to turn them off.
-120V outlet - worthless if I have to remember to turn it on everytime I turn my car on. Ford prompts you "something is plugged in, do you want power?" and you simply say "yes" and it's done. Not Toyota...
-Cool box: solution no one asked for. Storage would be nice.
-Storage: basically none. My phone is clipped into a vent mount like I'm driving a 1990 Honda Civic, because there is nowhere good to put it.
-Ventilated seats: These are NOT cooled seats and they are nearly useless. See also, Ford or Porsche and actual cooled seats.
-Towing: I have a dissertation on this already, and I stand by every single complaint. It's a terrible tow vehicle for anywhere near its stated maximum of 8k lbs.
-Lack of split tailgate or fold up glass or powered glass. Literally every cool play feature that could exist at the back of the vehicle, doesn't. You get a basic b!tch rear hatch.
-Sound system: beyond bad. No bass whatsoever. If you love treble, this is the system for you. No room to add a subwoofer, so you're stuck with it.
-Buzzy steering wheel: this is my first time complaining about this, but it's a real annoyance at 10k miles. If you are into the RPM range above 2800, the steering wheel buzzes with a frequency I can only assume Toyota engineered into the vehicle to prevent customers from going over 2800 rpm. I'm guessing this is a QDR play since they know the engine won't live up to previous engines, but it's seriously annoying. It's like a video game controller when you get shot in a shooter game, the vibration is clearly intentional.
-Transmission: never shows you what gear you are in unless in manual mode. Hella lame.
-Gauges: don't give you actual readouts in terms of temperatures, just a vague approximation of what's going on.
-Identity crisis: triple locked, but with janky side steps that are easy to bend (ask me how I know) and the front of the rig has Princess Vespa's old nose. This is a classic identity crisis. Is this thing a Jeep or is it your grandma's RX? If you need all your lockers, you're wrecking something in the process because they failed to give you real armor (which could easily have been done and kept the aesthetic, but Toyota is cheap).
-Seat adjustments are not great. Thigh extender really is just a "back of the calf molester", as it does nothing for your thighs. The car is comfortable overall, but this is half baked.
-ICE POP: everytime the EV switches to ICE, you get a pop sound. Not endearing, not interesting, just weird and annoying.
-Jerky drivetrain power delivery: I drive exclusively in Eco mode because even in normal it's something like this: nothing nothing nothing FULL POWER.
-There is a creak from the sunroof visor (common on all of them); it has to be partially open to avoid it.
-The roof flutters at highway speed. Bush League.
-Massage seats: buried 7 screen touches deep in the menu, turns off after 15 minutes. Toyota didn’t want anyone using this, but needed to add it to the brochure.
This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure other issues will occur to me.
Did I mention I like it? Honestly, there's still nothing quite like it; as I said earlier, it's James Bond if Bond were a car.
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I had a cool box in my 2013 LC and now in my 2020 LX. I love it. I've got enough storage elsewhere.
It works fine for me, but then I live in NH.
I'm sorry, but I will never understand this obsession with the split tailgate. My 4th Gen 4Runner had a standard liftgate with powered glass. I never used the powered glass because it was slow, a pain in the backside, and dirt on the glass would cause scratches if you lowered it. I never drove around with it down, because that just lets noise and fumes into the vehicle.
Both my 200s have had the split tailgate and, well, it's OK, but nothing awesome. Yes, it gives you a place to sit, which I hardly ever use. It gives you some storage. But it puts you about 18" further from the cargo area, so reaching items up against the 2nd row seats is impossible without climbing onto the lower gate.
I'm fine with a standard liftgate. I'm fine with split tailgate. The powered lowering glass like the 4Runner is completely useless to me -- it's slower and harder to open than a standard flip up glass on a standard liftgate. And the split tailgate is more expensive, more complex, and harder to fully power than a standard liftgate.
I still don't understand why you cant see or set tire pressure gauge in the driver dash. You have to go to the infotainment menu to see it. Heck, the 2nd infotaiment has enough room to show tire pressure. while driving, my TPMS turned on so i had to go to the menu to see which tire is low and it was the spare!
Massage seat control is buried in the menu and no short cut.
I still like the car and not a deal breaker.
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- #167
I don’t think any of these are major issues, but they all add up to a distinct impression.
The impression: Toyota cares mostly about cost-cutting, even on a low volume halo vehicle.
Just using the tailgate example: I don’t particularly care, other than the fact that a split tailgate has historically been a unique and interesting aspect of LCs going back a very longtime.
Engineering a split tailgate is expensive. On a low volume model, Toyota decided it wasn’t worth investing in.
Ford and Lincoln just rolled out a split tailgate on their new Expedition/Navigator with some creative added functionality. They will sell a lot of units, but ultimately they determined this is a play feature the public wants. They’re right.
Range Rovers have always had them as far as I know. People want them.
BMW X7 has it, BMW knows customers love it.
Most Land Cruiser people I’ve spoken with over the years really loved them, both for functionality and as a uniquely Land Cruiser feature across the full Toyota lineup.
The love of the split tailgate was at least partially based on the fact that Land Cruisers are very expensive vehicles and they represent a “no expense spared” ethos. Including something that no other Toyota (or Lexus) had, meant something special, a meaningful differentiation that stood out.
Now it’s the exact same tailgate as a Sienna. Yay.
Removing it wasn’t based on market research, it was based on cost cutting. One of those “I don’t know it for a fact, I just know it’s true” things.
Nearly every gripe on my list is evidence of cost cutting.
The LX feels premium. It feels expensive. Everyone gets in it and is like “oh wow..”
Ultimately it’s a complicated and conflicted vehicle.
I think most of your complaints can be explained by taking a step back and realizing a couple things:
1 - The LX is based on the LC300, which has traditionally been a heavy-duty-rugged off-roader. Lexus had to start with that as a base and try to build a luxury vehicle from that. It was NOT designed from the ground up with the luxury in mind, like a RRs, Escalators, Porsches, etc. with which the LX wrongly competes with. This has been beaten to death I think. Lexus charges a premium for the LX, reaching close to these luxury options, but has several short comings when compared to them. Most people will choose the luxury options, some, like most of us here, won't because we value something else.
2 - The LX (and LC300 for that matter), were NOT designed or thought with the US market as a priority. If anything, the US is probably second-to-last in terms of markets Toyota/Lexus aimed with the 300. Over there, top of the list are certainly the ME and AUS. Even Japan is probably 3rd in the list, ironically as it seems. Because of this, lots of things we find quirky here are probably well received in the priority markets. One example which the car reviewers always mention is the 2-screen arrangement. I have heard two explanations. One is that the design of the dash was far ahead with the previous 200 arrangement (with the lower screen as main screen), when someone decided it needed a revamp and a bigger screen. The solution was then to stack the bigger infotainment screen on top of the smaller one. The other explanation is that the ME market really asked for a dedicated screen for the AC and Offroad information. IMO, it was probably a combination of both. I honestly don't mind the two screens and even prefer having the ability to see the offroad and ac info without having to mess with the carplay going in the bigger screen - something I have to constantly do in my 200. I also utterly despise this new tendency of sticking 21-inch TVs to the dashboard.
3 - It is conflicted for the same reason you find it to be the James Bond of cars. Think about it, even Daniel Craig is holding dearly to that hairline which will eventually go away. Depending on the observer's perspective, perfection is something unachievable.
You must not camp out of your Cruiser. If you did, you would get it.
I camp out of mine. Doing it again this weekend. I don’t mind it at all. Easier to get to things in the back and I just, you know, bring a camp chair lol. I have camped in my 80 too and idk if I’ve ever sat on the tailgate for a long time. The only reason I like the split gate is because I made mine in my 80 tool storage
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I don’t disagree with what you’re saying (to a point) and I’m aware of the alleged reasons (excuses) behind the issues I’ve brought to light.
Toyota makes some great widgets, and I’ve also owed most of those. In fact we just bought a 2025 Sienna Woodland Trim. Love it.
Widgets (appliances if you prefer) are what Toyota does best.
Enthusiast vehicles are where they come up short, IMO.
Compared to how other brands go whole hog on their enthusiast vehicles (literally any Porsche, Wrangler 392, Raptor, TRX, etc), Toyotas lukewarm approach is hard to get excited about.
Their Trailhunter trims have finally crossed the threshold (sort of) into a true OEM off roader (finally), which makes the omissions on the $120k triple locked LX OT that much more conspicuous.
You mentioned what “we value” in your post, referring to LX700 OT buyers, but I am one and you’re not one as far as I know. Correct me if wrong.
That would mean the “we” is me. Im saying what I value. I value a lot about the LX, but far from everything about it. Reliability wont be known fully for years. Durability so far looks promising. Quality is so so.
QDR is not the only lens to view vehicles through.
Once it’s your $120k that goes from your bank account into Toyotas, it’s possible you will be a bit more critical.
To be perfectly honest, I’d have paid $140k happily if they got it right.
The US is an enormous market, and it’s a market with quite likely the highest demand for competent off roaders. Affluent US buyers will gladly spend nearly any amount on a 4x4 that impresses.
> $100k: Range Rover. Raptor R. G Wagon.
Just barely under $100k: Defender, Braptor, TRX, F150 Raptor (non R), Wrangler 392.
$60k-$80k: Lower tier still and high demand: 4Runner, Tacoma, Ranger Raptor, Colorado ZR2, Bronco, Wrangler.
The above vehicles mostly see consistent demand, and have strong sales.
Toyota rolling out a triple locked halo rig that’s half baked is only explained by their lack of enthusiasm for their own vehicle and a lack of respect for the enthusiast who buys it.
BTW, check out Raptor R prices as a case study. Years after Ford released it, you still can’t even find one for less than $20k over MSRP. Thats what getting it right looks like.
That would have been the LX700 Overtrails legacy if they were serious about the things I mentioned.
But they aren’t serious, and LX buyers can already find deals on new rigs. No one is buying.
The largest auto maker on the planet could do better. If they wanted to. But they print enough money by selling RAV4s to not GAF about my opinion
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Agree with #1 that the LX shouldn't really compete with those vehicles, but I think so many people don't do enough research on whatever vehicle they're purchasing, and especially don't understand the reasons the LX is priced the way it is. It's a pretty niche vehicle, especially these days when like you said, people will choose "luxury" over the quality and toughness that most LX/300 (and that includes the 570/200) buyers specifically look for. That being said, when people say the LX isn't as luxurious as the RR, Escalades, etc., I still don't really understand exactly what they think we're missing. And maybe I'm more old school, but as far as technology/driving nannies go, I don't really know what else they could add, or that I would want more of that. Just comparing the LX to my wife's GLE 53 (not the coupe, the regular one), of course the Merc is a completely different driving experience (yeah, it's a blast to drive), but as far a "luxury" goes, there's nothing on her car that beats out the LX that I can think of. If anything, the infotainment system is just as clunky as the LXs. Now, I realize it's also not in the same category as a RR or Escalade, but I'm truely curious what people think they're missing in terms of luxury...besides the ride and handling of a unibody (or maybe that's what they're referring to).
Just felt like commenting on some of your issues. As far a range goes, I don't think anyone would disagree with that, BUT, coming from a lifted 200 which gets maybe 11 mpg around town, this thing is like a Prius to me, haha.
We just did a short roadtrip to beach, and I actually made the trip home on one tank of gas (barely), where it used to take two fillups. Still, I agree with, and would also have liked a larger tank in my 200 as well.-HATE, HATE the nanny beeps, especially the back seat ones. I think I read that the dealer can turn the rear ones off...hopefully.
-I haven't noticed the buzzy steering wheel. I wonder if the 700 is maybe tuned a little differently than the 600?
-Agree with the coolbox thing. Never used it in my 200, won't use it now, except for storage.
-As far as the sound system goes, I have heard that some people (moreso with the GX550 though) aren't happy with the sound. I think at very low volumes mine sounds "okay," but have you played around with the settings at all? I assume you have, but I've gotten it sounding pretty good in mine honestly. I have the bass almost all the way up, the treble is maybe a third of the way up, and I have the midrange maybe 10% to the negative side. I have the fader just slightly to the rear, and after playing around with 3D vs 2D vs Stereo, I think 3D sounds best in mine. Give this a try and see if it makes any difference.
-Lack of split tail gate...I will die on that cross too. I love my split tailgate in the 200...the other thing is there's no bumper to put anyting on when the tailgate is closed.
-Can't comment on the ICE pop, but some of the other issues you're having, I would take it to the dealer and have them look at it. I don't have any transmission issues or interior creaks, especially not the sunroof visor, so if your dealer is telling you it's normal, it's not.
-Oh, and as far as the phone holder goes, I'm with you, I don't love the charging location, but I did find a decent holder that I attached to the bolster near my right knee. I would still like the mount to be a little higher, but overall, it actually works pretty well. I'm planning on running a power cord to the fuse box so it'll charge the phone as well, but I haven't had a chance yet. Apparently the fuse box is under the glove box, so I need to run the cable through the console. Here's what i got: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D6YWKW8Y?tag=ihco-20
I can appreciate your list, as it is an honest assesment of the vehicle (and you don't come off bitching like some of the GX550 owners
), but I do think some of your issues are definitely fixable, or at least I'm not seeing them in mine, so I would certainly bring them up to the dealer and see if they can get some of them fixed for you. Good luck, I hope they can.When I said "we", I meant we - enthusiasts here, Cruiser heads, etc, etc. The OT is not the first "LC" with shortcomings and "we" kept buying them even before. Think about it. 200 or 100 prices were really adequate considering what they offered? I don't think so. A 200 MSRP was close to $90k, LXs even more. All of this in 2020/2021 and they did not even offered phone integration. Outdated technology is an understatement to what they offered. This is just one example, several others exist, I am sure. Cars 4 or 5 years ago costing $90k offered much more than a 200. That said, "we" still bought and glorified them.
In any event, I will also have some skin in the game soon. My OT is arriving in 2 weeks or so and I will have to burn the $120k for it. Why? Because we here value other things like bullet proof construction, reliability, on and on. I know some of those haven't been proved yet but if I had to bet in any car-maker that makes these things right, it would be Toyota and we all know why.
I don't think Toyota/Lexus will ever be like Ford, Porsche or LR and I thank God for that.
Well said, I was suprised whenever I learned the 300/LX doesn't have the fold up glass, Not only did they take away the split tailgate but to not even give you fold up glass is merciless. We really should be raising more hell about the removal of the tailgate It's a shame.
Hit my PR today. 307 miles off
1 tank and still had room. 18mpg avg
90% hwy
10% local
1 tank and still had room. 18mpg avg
90% hwy
10% local
This is great. How many miles total do you have? It seems to improve with time and miles. Interesting to see the computer was off by almost 1 mpg.
Around 12k miles now. Love this thing
Nice! Did you upgrade from a 200?
I did. I traded in a 2021 Heritage Edition. Don’t really miss it either.