Looking to buy 4runner- school me on Pro vs Premium models? (1 Viewer)

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Hello all. I haven’t been keeping up on the latest 4Runners, but have decided a 5th Gen will be my next vehicle. The wife will drive it daily, but it still has to be capable enough to handle colorado trails and camp trips. Looking to add sliders and a winch bumper. This vehicle will be used for moderately hard trails, and has to be able to hold its own, and be self reliant, self recovering. I’m an experienced off roader and have recovery skills.
Questions: is the Pro worth it? I’m a bit concerned about it being “too technologically driven.” I read something about a camera driven terrain management system? That scares me. Also, I’m worried about the cost to replace the expensive Fox Shocks down the road. I have them on another rig, and they haven’t held up well.
My wife really wants the premium sounds system and the Army Green color.
I see that the TRD Off Road Premium comes in Army Green now.
Looking for opinions on the Off Road Premium vs the Pro.
I welcome your thoughts.
 
Basically the pro comes with Fox internal bypass shocks and a special color each year. Otherwise it's a TRD OR. It is not offered with kdss. Only TRDOR has kdss as an option.

You really need to test drive them. For me kdss was a must have and I added fox 2.5 aftermarket suspension. Some find kdss to be too firm.
 
Are you buying new? If so, here's how I lay out the TRDOR vs Pro debate:

TRD Off Road base price is $43,400. Add KDSS and Premium Audio and the total comes to $46,235.
TRD Off Road Premium starts at $45,230 and similarly optioned is $47,830.
(Prices as per the Toyota configurator).
Note that KDSS isn't available on the Pro. I love KDSS on my GX.

TRD Pro base price is $54,020. Still might have difficulty finding one at MSRP, too. Functional benefits over the TRDOR are the suspension, skid plate, off-road cameras, auto headlights, and factory A/T tires. You also get the choice of Pro-exclusive colors (for this model year, before they are offered on lower trims), Pro badges/etc, and the mostly-useless FJ roof rack.

You're looking at a delta of about $8k to get a Pro over a well-equipped TRDOR, and $6k over a TRDORP. If you plan on upgrading the suspension, or don't like the Fox kit, that money can go a long way to a high-quality aftermarket suspension setup, better tires, and a bunch of gas money. You really need to want the visual upgrades of the Pro and/or knowing you have a Pro to buy one over a TRDOR/ORP, in my opinion. $50k is a lot of money to spend on a truck that's mostly unchanged since 2010, but my $50k would go to a TRDOR Premium, Ironman suspension, better tires (not a fan of the Nitto Terra Grapplers), and a secondhand OEM TRD skid plate. You end up with a vehicle more capable than the Pro for the same money, and get to make it your own along the way.

[FWIW, I bought a TRDORP new in 2018 which I still regret getting rid of and have driven 15+ 5th gen 4Runners]
 
@Roody lol at your $54k price tag. I have been in the market for a TRD Pro for the past few years. Yes there are a FEW select dealers out there that you MIGHT convince to sell you a Pro at MSRP, but I haven't had any luck yet. I have looked at DOZENS of TRD PRO trucks that were used and priced $5k to $10,000 MORE than a new unit. Toyota produces to the pace of sales using the pull system, so this whole idea of dealer allotments blows my mind, it's completely against the Toyota pillars and TPS. I have made numerous offers on these trucks and these dealers won't budge a penny, the real reason behind it is 100% because people panic buy and agree to pay WAY TOO MUCH. Stop making these dealers believe that the extra worth is there, because if you remember just a few years back, you could get a used TRD pro in the $35k range. Its a 4 runner, not a 100 series cruiser!

The BS story is always the same, "supply and demand". My issue with this lie, other than Toyota's supposed shift from a pull system to a push system, is that 4 runners have had RECORD sales numbers in the past few years. There has been more units produced and sold than ever before, yet material shortages and chip shortages are making 4 runners rare and scarce? My local dealer tried to scam buyers by adding on $5k to a new lime green unit and on the window sticker listed this as "underbody protection". I have a production engineering certificate from Toyota that includes a 16 week course on the specifics of their paint shop and all the processes involved. I inspected that truck and there was NOTHING added onto it. When I called them out on it as fraud, they revised the sticker to just say "market adjustment".

WE the consumer control the market. All it takes is for people to be patient and just say NO the gouging. I blacklist every dealer that tries to pull this crap, the market is already changing, and eventually they will be begging us to buy these trucks at MSRP.

 
@Roody lol at your $54k price tag. I have been in the market for a TRD Pro for the past few years. Yes there are a FEW select dealers out there that you MIGHT convince to sell you a Pro at MSRP, but I haven't had any luck yet. I have looked at DOZENS of TRD PRO trucks that were used and priced $5k to $10,000 MORE than a new unit. Toyota produces to the pace of sales using the pull system, so this whole idea of dealer allotments blows my mind, it's completely against the Toyota pillars and TPS. I have made numerous offers on these trucks and these dealers won't budge a penny, the real reason behind it is 100% because people panic buy and agree to pay WAY TOO MUCH. Stop making these dealers believe that the extra worth is there, because if you remember just a few years back, you could get a used TRD pro in the $35k range. Its a 4 runner, not a 100 series cruiser!

The BS story is always the same, "supply and demand". My issue with this lie, other than Toyota's supposed shift from a pull system to a push system, is that 4 runners have had RECORD sales numbers in the past few years. There has been more units produced and sold than ever before, yet material shortages and chip shortages are making 4 runners rare and scarce? My local dealer tried to scam buyers by adding on $5k to a new lime green unit and on the window sticker listed this as "underbody protection". I have a production engineering certificate from Toyota that includes a 16 week course on the specifics of their paint shop and all the processes involved. I inspected that truck and there was NOTHING added onto it. When I called them out on it as fraud, they revised the sticker to just say "market adjustment".

WE the consumer control the market. All it takes is for people to be patient and just say NO the gouging. I blacklist every dealer that tries to pull this crap, the market is already changing, and eventually they will be begging us to buy these trucks at MSRP.

You're absolutely right, it's the same model as what Mercedes can do with the G-Wagen line. They know people will pay a certain price for them, so they price them just a bit higher than that to make them just out of reach which brings even more interest and allure. I too have seen countless used TRD Pros well over MSRP... hell, this time last year, used TRD Off Roads were listed well over MSRP.

Not to add gas to a fire, but my 2018 TRD Off Road Premium (that had a few options) listed around $42k and I bought it new for $36k. Different times, and the 4Runner wasn't looked at then the way it is now. It only adds to my rationale for recommending a TRDORP over a Pro, except for those who want to buy something that's a very good off-roader from the factory and not tinker with it.
 
Honestly, I kind of don’t want to mess with upgrading. This is the wife’s rig. We will be putting on a winch bumper, lighting, and ditching the hideous FJC-esque roof rack for a full length flat rack. We want a 2020 in the Army Green color, so I’m searching nationwide.
From what I hear, only the TRD Pro has dual zone climate, which might be a big plus, because my feet are always sweating, and hers are blocks of ice. She burns my feet nearly right off with the floor heat on every trip. Lol.
I haven’t researched KDSS. I’ll have to read up and see what it brings to the table. Last I remembered reading, they had that on the 4th Gen 4runner and it was problematic? Is that the system with the oil filled cylinders and hard lines running around on the frame?
Sorry I sound like a noob- I’ve been driving a Jeep Rubicon since 2012, so I’ve been out of the Toyota game a while. Looking to come back!
 
I need to look at new units too. I believe the Army Green color comes on the Off Road Premium now too. With prices ranging from $51,000 to $60,000 on used Pros, maybe the new units actually are a better deal.
 
4th gen was XREAS. KDSS is similar but much better in my experience. Something to consider is that if you're adding a metal front bumper and winch, you'll probably want to upgrade the suspension (at least the front) to handle the weight.
 
I just got back into a 21 TRDP. This is my 3rd 5th Gen. I added Eibach springs and 285’s and absolutely love it.
The pro will maintain a higher resale value in the long run if that’s important to you.
With a redesign coming, I believe the analog, BOF, durable, 5th Gen TRDP will stay a favorite.
 
I believe I’ve settled on a Pro. Now if I can just get my hands on one. Missed out on three so far! :bang:
I love the thought of the KDSS. I’m really bummed and bewildered by Toyota’s choice to not offer it on the pro. The other features on the pro would be missed more than the KDSS if I went with an ORP. I’ve got a lot to learn. I want to find a 1-1/2” to 2” ish lift that keeps the factory Pro Fox shocks, so I can put on 285’s and have a bit more clearance. That’s as much as this rig will ever get, height and tire wise. Going with a Hefty Fab aluminum bumper, since I live in Colorado Springs and can pick it up here. Replace the roof rack with a full length flat rack, add some lighting- call it good.
 
I believe I’ve settled on a Pro. Now if I can just get my hands on one. Missed out on three so far! :bang:
I love the thought of the KDSS. I’m really bummed and bewildered by Toyota’s choice to not offer it on the pro. The other features on the pro would be missed more than the KDSS if I went with an ORP. I’ve got a lot to learn. I want to find a 1-1/2” to 2” ish lift that keeps the factory Pro Fox shocks, so I can put on 285’s and have a bit more clearance. That’s as much as this rig will ever get, height and tire wise. Going with a Hefty Fab aluminum bumper, since I live in Colorado Springs and can pick it up here. Replace the roof rack with a full length flat rack, add some lighting- call it good.
As noted above I used the Eibach springs w my existing Fox shocks on my 21 pro. Mounted Mickey Thompson 285’s. Very happy so far
Curious what flat racks your looking at as I’m in the market too?
 
Curious what flat racks your looking at as I’m in the market too?
Not real sure yet, as that’s lower on the list of wanted mods. Just trying to find a 2020 Pro in Army Green has been a nightmare.
I’m looking to go after this look, but with the Hefty low bar bumper.
This is one I missed by only a day. It was in Hobbs, NM. Tragically, they painted the wheels black, and it sold the next day. Dealer said everyone hated the bronze wheels. That was my favorite thing about it. I really don’t like black wheels.
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I sold my brother my AG pro a couple years ago, one of my favorites!
Good luck with your search
 
More beels and whistles, more to go wrong (Even on a Toy).
 
Beaver Toyota Cumming (LOL) has a USED 2023 TRD pro in the Hawaiian punch color for $69,333 or $15,000 OVER MSRP. The same dealership has a 2021 TRD pro with 26,862 miles for $62,995. Their number is 678-208-4029 if you want to call and take advantage of this excellent deal.
 
Haha. Sounds like a steal!

Just an FYI if you aren't aware - new American Land Cruiser will be released sometime early summer of this year with production in late fall. It'll be the new Prado/4Runner/GX/LC version of TNGA-F platform. There's going to be a new Land Cruiser that is boxy like a LC70 style on a 4Runner shared platform and the new 4Runner will be released mid-late summer 2024 for a model year 2025. So there will be a new Land Cruiser, GX, and 4Runner all coming out pretty soon. Depending on your timeline, it might be worth waiting to see what those are before pulling the trigger on a wildly marked up TRD Pro right now.

Also - data point to consider - 4Runner sales are down about 50% year over year right now. So there are deals coming as the inventory piles up. If you don't need one immediately, it might be a good call to sit on the sideline for a few months and see what the new land cruiser looks like and/or get a better discount on a new 4Runner.

Also - if the tires fit at any height they also fit stock height. I ran 285/75/17 (34") tires at near stock height. You will need a body mount chop for anything beyond 285/70/17 (32.5") if you run wheel spacers or lower offset wheels. The scrub radius is the problem. I had a set of custom made 1" wheel spacers but the rear studs are too long and sit slightly proud of the 1" spacer so I milled small recess pockets in my wheels to not interfere. It's a lot of small mods to narrow up just a bit, but it helps clear 34-35" tires without contacting the upper control arms or the body mount/pinch weld area. Just my .02. Also - If you are going to go play harder in the rocks offroad - the TRD OR wheels are better than the TRD Pro for a few reasons. They protect the valve stem and they are wider wheels. So if you wanted a slightly better wheel for offroad use but with factory offset you can pick up the TRD OR wheels cheap and run them.

A really nice size tire that shouldn't need much trimming would be the BFG AT 34x10.5x17. They're tall and skinny and undersized for the measurement. Closer to a true 33x9.5. But they clear nicely and have pretty low rolling resistance. Biggest downside is that they're crazy $$ for the size most of the time unless you find a good sale.

Good luck.
 
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Wow that’s a lot of good info.! Anxious to see the new stuff
Me too. I really hope it's great. I know the internal Toyota folks are excited.

I'm kinda luke warm at this point. Here's why: First, the new Tundra was pretty disappointing to me. Both in initial build quality (I had come in I was planning to buy and chose not to after a test drive) and overall design/powertrain. It was a downgrade in a lot of ways from the old Tundra. Interior tech, materials, layout is very nice. But the cabin got smaller, visibility markedly worse, the bed is 1.5" shorter, about 2" shallower, and over 7 inches narrower! Yet the truck actually grew something like 7 inches overall length. It sacrificed a lot of utility for style. I really like the V35A in my limited experience. Great engine. But VERY complex and expensive and effectively unserviceable in the field. It's fragile. Fragile isn't great for me. And the hybrid is highly disappointing; no inverter, giant old-tech battery, expensive, no material mpg benefits, and in the Sequoia it results in a cargo area literally smaller than the 4Runner. So - I'd say a swing and a miss as far as the new Tundra and Sequoia from the same team of designers.

And all indications are that the powertrains are marginal at best other than the GX550 that'll get the V35A. I don't have a clear picture of what the lineup looks like, but I *think* unfortunately the new Tacoma that'll come first with a reveal next month is going to get a 2.5L NA 4cyl, keep some version of the 3.5l v6 GR, and only the TRD Pro will come with the T24A (Turbo 2.4) in hybrid form. So the meat of the lineup will still potentially be the inadequate (IMO) 2GR. Details are still unknown to me though and it's at least possible that the turbo 2.4 could be the std engine in the non-TRD Pro models. T24A and 2GR are roughly the same power, so it's likely to be one or the other in the normal trucks. This leaves the new Tacoma as the least powerful engine lineup in the market even on day 1 of its first all new truck in 20 years. The new Ranger Raptor will have a 400hp turbo6, and even the base engine 2.7 Turbo 4 in the Colorado has significantly more power than the Tacoma will. Unless the early leaks are misleading and maybe the 2GR is really a V35A or something like that - I think it'll be a big let down after some initial marketing push. The 2GR tacoma isn't very good. My parents have a 2020. They would not buy another one. I also would not be interested in owning one as it is. It's 2cyl short of a decent driving experience.

It's a 4Runner. So in that respect it's a pretty well known commodity in terms of overall design. It'll be a body on frame TNGA-F and it'll be IFS and a 5 link rear coil suspension very similar to current design. Nothing magic there. The unknowns are engine/trans combo - early info is it'll only have the turbo 2.4/hybrid setup. That's around 310hp/400tq, but the hybrid part that's 40hp/100tq is only good for about 60 seconds and in steady state use like highway driving it's really 275hp/300tq. The Turbo 6 is reserved for the Lexus version. The turbo4 hybrid is probably a small step up from the current 4Runner. I think the 10 speed transmission will be a HUGE improvement though.

As for the new 4Runner, it's an evolutionary update. It will stay true to its mission with updated styling and likely the same powertrain options as the new Tacoma minus the NA 4cyl unless it has a NA4cyl/hybrid option. But most likely it'll be T24A and T24A hybrid, or possibly the 1GR caries on again. The rumors have gone back and forth between a higher trim optional turbo 6 or not. It seems unlikely, but there's at least still rumors floating around that it may be an option. Not sure.

The biggest issue I see is that Toyota doesn't have something between the small turbo 4 and the bigger turbo 6. The little one is too small, and the big one is probably too big. Toyota needs something equivalent of the Ford 2.7EB or the GM 2.7 T4. low 300's hp and mid 300's tq. So Toyota either needs to bump the T24A to about 2.7-2.8 liters or a smaller version of the turbo 6. The problem is that the V35A is effectively impossible to service in many cases without the body off because of the configuration and it requires a s*** ton of accessory parts to work - double air filters, multiple cooling systems, etc. Inline turbo engines are a better design for serviceability. The turbo hangs off one side and you can get to it easily. In my perfect world Toyota would make a 6cyl single turbo version of the T24A. But I think we know that's not in the cards. So it'll almost certainly be the small engine and remain true to the 4Runner history of being 2cyl short of adequate power.

So - sorry for the rant. It's pretty repetitive of some other comments I've made in other places on here. I'm still hopeful that the new Land Cruiser and 4Runner will be great. In the alternative - the new ford bronco is hard not to like. Even for a Toyota guy.
 
I still might buy a 4 runner, but I am really not interested in ever buying anything newer than the current 4 runner. Toyota has gotten way too far away from their original culture. It's been dilluted into an americanized push system of low quality and high prices. Never will I buy a vehicle that is NOT made in Japan. We had a 2021 Camry as a rental, total junk.

I am considering buying this for a sunny day daily...

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