Lil help from the 80series crew...

[lowtideride]

I am in the middle of building up an 80 series with a 60 series body. The thread is in the 60s tech under Project Uranus...

I have the 80 stripped down to the driveline and frame just about ready to roll under the body of the 60 series.I hope to have it under there in the next week or so.

The rig has a part-time case and will not need the use of 4wd at high speeds. I am using the 6" slee coils for the project. But for the caster correction I would rather do a cut-n-turn like we do with 40-60series that are sprung over, instead of a drop bracket or correction bushings. This would leave the right caster but the angle of the front drive shaft would be off becuase of the lift. I can deal with the vibration at slow speeds that it will be used for off road. I know the pan-hard will also need to be lenghend which is not a big deal.

Is there anything I am over looking in the front end?

thanks,
-Al

 

[-Spike-]

I'm lost. If you're dojng a cut-n-turn (which no 80-series owner has ever heard of ) you can determine your own pinion angle, right? Either point the pinion above the t-case and match the angle of the u-joint at the t-case, point the pinion right at the t-case and use a DC driveshaft (although this could be done more easily with new arms or caster correction bushings and probably doesn't warrant a C&T) or point the pinion below the t-case in the standard configuration with the pinion parallel to the t-case output shaft.

While you're in there and obviously not adverse to fabbing, have you considered 3-linking the front suspension? That would eliminate the only real weakness in the 80 suspension (besides the birfs).

-Spike

 

[lowtideride]

Well I looked at like this: If I cut and turn I can put the knuckles to the right caster but the pinion angle would stay the same ( after the lift) becasue un-like a leaf sprung axle I can not add cast shims. So the control arms would keep me from rotating the axle...

...is this making any sense?

 

[FJBen]

Well...here's my worthless 2 cents..

Sounds like you are going to build it up beastly...I would ditch the front setup in favor of of a 3-link/4 link for MUCH better flexxing. Not that it's horrible, I've gotten really good flex...but a 3 link would do much better. If you are tearing down that far for a cut and turn...might as well link it!

EDIT ~Spike was a little faster than me...

 

[semlin]

cool project

the stock control arms are still going to twist the rest of the axle some from the lift. I'd go double cardon front drive shaft. if you stick with stock make sure you get new u-joints and set the yokes out of phase.

I assume you are ditching the sway bar? otherwise drop blocks.

somewhere there is an article about an oz guy who did a cut and turn on a big lift and a hi-steer. He tore the panhard out of the frame somehow. I'll try to find it.

 

[semlin]

can't find it. he also flipped his control arms if anyone can remember the thread with the link. white truck.

 

[lowtideride]

I may go 3-link in the future, But for now I am keeping the stock control arms.

A Cut-n-turn is rather easy to do, and since I am in there re-building the knuckles I can do it then. It will prob add 1.5 hours to the rebuilding of the knuckles so its no biggie. But, i have seen 3 links flex and its nuts. And will look into it for the future, but I really want to get this project rolling.

So All in all I would really just be turning the knuckles for the right steering geometry. And leaving the pinion angle alone( or to what ever it rotates when you add a 6" lift)

The front axles has Aisin hubs and like I said before a part-time case so the front drive shaft would not rotate on regular street driving like on a stock 80.

I would like to keep the sway bar, But am not to worried about it right now.

Thanks agian for the help,
-Al

 

[lowtideride]

can't find it. he also flipped his control arms if anyone can remember the thread with the link. white truck.

I thought about doing that too, but if you are going that far ya might as well 3-link it.

 

[NW-sickboy]

point the pinion to the case it makes for better clearance and is WAY easier to dial in with no vibrations that trying to stay stock DL and get in this little "zone of no vibs" that kind of exists. then dial your caster into stock or better and your set.... you will have some limitations with stock arms but you can dial that in later... you will ALWAYS want a good dl and good caster... done with a cut and turn..

btw its been done before.... and should be done more as i think people on this board have put more work into crafty ways of gettin back to stock caster than it would have take to just do a cut and turn.

best of luck sounds bitchin.

 

[-Spike-]

Well I looked at like this: If I cut and turn I can put the knuckles to the right caster but the pinion angle would stay the same ( after the lift) becasue un-like a leaf sprung axle I can not add cast shims. So the control arms would keep me from rotating the axle...

...is this making any sense?

Yep, I overlooked the fact that the control arms dictate the pinion angle. I guess you have two choices: ignore pinion angle (you have hubs and are able to disconnect the t-case front drive, so this is only a factor in 4wd- might not even be noticeable) or change the control arm configuration, either with a 3 link or control arm relocation or something else exotic. If you never plan on getting exotic, don't worry about pinion angle. If you do get exotic later, you will have to cut and turn again, which sucks. Personally, I'd allocate a little more time and do it right the first time- 3 link it now.

I guess cutting the tubes inside of the control arms is not viable, since they aren't round. If they were round you could cut them to turn the 3rd, and cut the outside to turn the knuckles. That sounds more difficult than relocating the control arm mounts though.

-Spike

 

[lowtideride]

Spike,
Cool, your on the same page now, I agree it would be lil bit of a pain down the road but I dont think it would be too bad. I will stick with this idea for now.

I was thinking about while reading you reply. You could relocate the mount on the frame where the control attaches. If I am thinking correctly which doesnt happen much but, if you move the mount up closer to the frame or sink it into the frame. It would roatat the pinion angle up and you could still cut and turn the steering angles to whatever you want. But if you go that far you might as well 3 link it.

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Dont know if it will be an issue for you but while your there with the welder you might think about relocating the spring perches inteh correct line with the upper buckets, with the cut and turn it sounds like you will leave the housing itself out of line.
Just my idling thoughts though.
Dave

 

[lowtideride]

Dont know if it will be an issue for you but while your there with the welder you might think about relocating the spring perches inteh correct line with the upper buckets, with the cut and turn it sounds like you will leave the housing itself out of line.
Just my idling thoughts though.
Dave

I was thinking about that as well. Do the springs Bow with caster correction or with out it? I remeber Wag5 springs where rather bowed with cast correction.

 

[semlin]

if you are going to go to that much trouble isn't it easier to just relocate the control arm mount brackets on the axle to correct everything at once? You'll get stock caster, driveshaft angle, and perch angle that way. All that is left is the panhard and maybe drag link rubbing.

 

[lowtideride]

Semlin,
thats why I was asking you guys , I was just going to cut and turn it and let it be for now. I dont know how easy it is going to be to cut them off and re-weld them( control arm brackets on he axle). I'll have to check after work tonight.

 

[semlin]

found the link i was thinking of. gets interesting around post 43. should help you out a little with moving the control arm brackets and maybe give some ideas on other stuff.

http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/index.php?board=18;action=display;threadid=9110;start=0

 

[FJBen]

I guess I don't understand the arm flip idea. I understand it works better with a taller lift (has to be) but for the work involved...it makes much more sense to 3-link it. You'll get TONS more flex, more clearance, adjustable caster.

 

[semlin]

not necessarily pushing the arm flip, just providing a link where somebody relocated the control arms.

 

[Tools R Us]

With a 6"+ lift you cant get proper caster with the stock arms in the stock location. When the knuckles/axle are rotated that far the tie rod will be where the arms need to be! So that leaves you with custom arms/links or arms on top? The arms on top mod will also net a little better ride and better climbing traction due to the flatter, close to stock arm geometry.

 

[FJBen]

With a 6"+ lift you cant get proper caster with the stock arms in the stock location. When the knuckles/axle are rotated that far the tie rod will be where the arms need to be! So that leaves you with custom arms/links or arms on top? The arms on top mod will also net a little better ride and better climbing traction due to the flatter, close to stock arm geometry.

Ahh,, thats what I was thinking...it seems the correct fix would be to cut and turn on higher lifts or go with true custom setup.